Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Magick intent and will different from mundane actions

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Magick intent and will different from mundane actions

    If my NPC does legal consulting work for politicians, can she cast Magick that undermines her client? The idea is that she uses this job to get to know various people in the political scene. The mundane work she does is necessary for her to make this contact. If she thinks the person will change things for the better, at the very least, she won't use Magick against them and might cast Magick that benefits them. Her main duty that she carries out on behalf of her Cabal is to weed out the worst actors. Are there any consequences to her if she uses Magick to expose the hidden relationships the aspiring leader has to other bad actors?

  • #2
    Who would hold her accountable? If she uses Coincidental Magick to reveal her clients' secrets, the mundane political system won't even know what happened. If her Cabal agrees with her decision, they won't stand in her way; and if they don't agree, then she's not upholding her duty to her Cabal.

    That leaves only the possibility that the politician she's seeking to uncover has the backing of some other Awakened faction, such as the Technocracy or the Nephandi. In which case, the consequences would be the opposing faction seeking revenge.

    There's one other consideration: the STV product Ascension's Landscape suggests the possibility of the being some broad ongoing Magickal Effect that grants countermagick to people with tremendous social or legal influence, to explain why heads of state aren't routinely mind-controlled or otherwise puppeted by the mystical world. If you decide to implement something like that in your setting, you could say that Backgrounds such as Wealth or Influence act as countermagick — which would at the very least complicate her attempt to use her Magick to ruin the politician's career.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 11-24-2020, 08:50 AM.


    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
      Who would hold her accountable? If she uses Coincidental Magick to reveal her clients' secrets, the mundane political system won't even know what happened. If her Cabal agrees with her decision, they won't stand in her way; and if they don't agree, them she's not upholding her duty to her Cabal.
      I was thinking more in terms of Paradox. Let's say a Hermetic uses ancient words as his focus for igniting a bonfire as he is pouring a bucket of cold water on the kindling. Is he counteracting his Will so badly that even if his fire would start before the water lands, his effect fails and he gets Paradox? My NPC is not in quite the same situation. Her corrupt client still gets her best advice about how to handle the latest scandal, which her own Magick has caused. So, I guess I have to take yes for an answer. I am obsessing over a little detail, because I want my campaign to be something other STs would find plausible, RAW.

      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
      There's one other consideration: the STV product Ascension's Landscape suggests the possibility of the being some broad ongoing Magickal Effect that grants countermagick to people with tremendous social or legal influence, to explain why heads of state aren't routinely mind-controlled or otherwise puppeted by the mystical world.
      I will have to find a way to get this. I don't do any kind of online financial transaction, ever. Thanks for the feedback. BTW, have you considered using the chainsaw as a wonder?

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd go with there are two major considerations:

        1. How much plot immunity should major public figures have? In some games, just being in power means the divine have your back. That's one of the rules in the Kalamar Player's Guide and Player's Guide to the Sovereign Lands for the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting in D&D. It's a lot harder for some minor mage or other supernatural to cause trouble for major figures in the world if they get automatic magic resistance and are harder to clone, for example.

        2. If you do have bad actor supernaturals in the background, then they certainly are going to be protecting their important pawns and themselves. They protect themselves and their pawns by knowing how to prevent magical undermining and other undermining. In this case, it's how much of a cutout those politicians are. If it's pretty easy for a group such as say, Pentex, to replace a member of a state legislature, then they probably will just focus on keeping their interests protected if faced with heavy opposition. After all, there's already a party system to create more state legislators and so there's a few on the 'promote if our current pawn bites it list.

        As Dataweaver has noted, you also want to consider that people with Influence and Resources and other backgrounds can use those in their defense. So, that state legislator is revealed to support toxic waste dumping where they shouldn't. Well, they have a lot of Resources and can hire a good lawyer and public relations specialist to make the statements seem fabricated or minimize the damage.

        And pretty much think of all the shenanigans that Wolfram & Hart does in the Angel TV show for their clients and you get an idea that most powerful people are going to have some protection from the good guys if they're at all connected.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by baakyocalder View Post
          2. If you do have bad actor supernaturals in the background, then they certainly are going to be protecting their important pawns and themselves. They protect themselves and their pawns by knowing how to prevent magical undermining and other undermining. In this case, it's how much of a cutout those politicians are.
          The politicians from her State are Sleepers and there is ordinary corruption. She will face the kind of pawns you are talking about in one sustained campaign of public influence and aggressive lobbying. I use employee psychological profiles and biometric film from office cameras as counter-magick against effects that would cause the pawn to deviate from their mission objectives.

          Originally posted by baakyocalder View Post
          If it's pretty easy for a group such as say, Pentex, to replace a member of a state legislature, then they probably will just focus on keeping their interests protected if faced with heavy opposition. After all, there's already a party system to create more state legislators and so there's a few on the 'promote if our current pawn bites it list.
          Spirit, combined with other Spheres, would be useful for drawing attention to tainted people in a coincidental way, "That guy is bad news. I can just tell.".

          Originally posted by baakyocalder View Post
          As Dataweaver has noted, you also want to consider that people with Influence and Resources and other backgrounds can use those in their defense. So, that state legislator is revealed to support toxic waste dumping where they shouldn't. Well, they have a lot of Resources and can hire a good lawyer and public relations specialist to make the statements seem fabricated or minimize the damage.
          I will definitely use "politicians have counter-magick". In my chronicle, toxic dumping is difficult to get away with. The Traditions, Technocracy and internet savvy Sleepers would inflict a cost on the poisoner so punitive that proper disposal is the cheaper option. For Pentex, it's more about extracting everything from an ecosystem and then mining under the clear-cut. They would like to do this, but there is a Cultural Reality Zone that is resistant.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
            If my NPC does legal consulting work for politicians, can she cast Magick that undermines her client? The idea is that she uses this job to get to know various people in the political scene. The mundane work she does is necessary for her to make this contact. If she thinks the person will change things for the better, at the very least, she won't use Magick against them and might cast Magick that benefits them. Her main duty that she carries out on behalf of her Cabal is to weed out the worst actors. Are there any consequences to her if she uses Magick to expose the hidden relationships the aspiring leader has to other bad actors?
            There whas a similar conecpt in akashic brotherhood revised where a prosecutor uses magic to deliver justice or get failed in court if other Akasheya standing on accused bench.


            As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
            First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
            Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
              If my NPC does legal consulting work for politicians, can she cast Magick that undermines her client? The idea is that she uses this job to get to know various people in the political scene. The mundane work she does is necessary for her to make this contact. If she thinks the person will change things for the better, at the very least, she won't use Magick against them and might cast Magick that benefits them. Her main duty that she carries out on behalf of her Cabal is to weed out the worst actors. Are there any consequences to her if she uses Magick to expose the hidden relationships the aspiring leader has to other bad actors?

              One of the conceits of Mage is that there is no one to authoritatively tell your characters if they are right or wrong. Might may make right. It may not. Either way your character has might, so what does she choose to do with it.

              Which is to say, there are lots of consequences. None of them are inherent to magic itself.


              Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

              Comment

              Working...
              X