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NWO operative with unique philosophy. need help for storytelling this

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  • NWO operative with unique philosophy. need help for storytelling this

    so im STing a technocracy game and one of my players is playing a follower of Plato and a bit of philosophical deviant within the union.

    he bellies in things like "Jungian archetypal theory"; the platonic prototypes manifesting in the ensemble space or astral umbra; the logos, pathos ethos Modes of persuasion. also the notion of Enlightened Anthropic Principle, the: Technocratic theory that human beings create the conditions of a human- based reality through conscious and subconscious accord; in short, the belief that people – especially Enlightened people – create and maintain reality as we know it.




    something he's really into, since he is a dimensional science and mind major. also employs correspondence, not necessarily data.



    this character is unique and could be deemed a bit of a deviant in the technocracy. im not sure if these ideas would be accepted and while I don't care, im down with retconning the union anyway, I want to know if anyone can provide some feedback on this idea for me.

  • #2
    quotes from the PC

    "The thing is that because the physical world is actually based on human consciousness and sub consciousness, the scientific method can be applied to the mind through the soft sciences/arts"

    "Of course, everything in the conscious mind comes from a foundation. So that's where the Mind Sphere comes in. Then it applies to dimensional science because Mind and the dimensional layers of reality are a reflection of each other"

    "apply the idea of Jungian archetypes and the collective unconsciousness and you see that the framework of who someone can become exists as a concept already..."

    "Anyone with a problem with Plato has a problem with 2500 years of foundation of human thought"

    "Everyone's already part of the technocracy, because the Technocracy is dedicated to Truth through the scientific method, and all knowable Truth is already known, it simply has to be rediscovered."

    "Anything that isn't priori knowledge is only opinion, which is the lowest of the low. The Traditions try to change reality by swaying Opinion, the Technocracy by a united humanity seeking Truth. The path is clear."

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    • #3
      He would definitely be a maverick within the Technocracy and especially the NWO. Technocratic orthodoxy is based on scientific empiricism, which is the total opposite of the Platonic theory of the forms (and neoPlatonism, for that matter). He might feel drawn toward the Society of Ether, a Tradition based on a book (the Kitab al-Alacir) written by a Greek mage who may very well have studied at Plato’s Academy and debated with Plato’s student and rival Aristotle (whose philosophy is one of the foundations of the Technocratic Union).

      Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions.


      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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      • #4
        He’s also Into Aristotle more than Plato

        Should’ve mentioned that

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        • #5
          The upcoming Technocracy Reloaded points out that Technocrats fully understand that what they do involves changing reality; what they don't acknowledge is that what they do is essentially the same as what the Superstitionists do.

          What Zennis describes actually fits in the Technocracy as described in TR.


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          • #6
            I'd look to the characters mentor - who put him on this path, and taught them the views they hold. Even without dots in mentor it would give the explanation of how they got to where they where.

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            • #7
              In a real sense, the Order of Reason would have been deeply committed to Plato and Aristotle. Heck, the Technocracy is founded by upperclass English people in the Victorian period. Those people were drenched in Plato and Aristotle.

              Your character would be seen as eccentric but useful for getting into the heads of Hermetics. Younger members of the Technocratic Union might come to him for insight into the history of the Union.

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              • #8
                Sounds like White Tower material. Enligthened Academics should know their classic philosophy.

                Probably the most "eccentric " part I see it's following Karl Jung. But it's not a big deal as long as you remain far away from the most mystical aspects of his theories (like the Red Book). And, yes, it can be used to explain mystical paradigms in a way more palatable to Technocratic views. The Technocracy isn't big on such syncretisms, but it's always going to be less of an outlier than "psychics" (and these do exist in the Union. So...I can see it)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                  The upcoming Technocracy Reloaded points out that Technocrats fully understand that what they do involves changing reality; what they don't acknowledge is that what they do is essentially the same as what the Superstitionists do.

                  What Zennis describes actually fits in the Technocracy as described in TR.
                  Hmmm. Good point.


                  “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't see a problem. Aleph is right to point out that the cannon Technos have a wide variety of stuff that is way out there.

                    What matters more is the extent to which they challenge the underlying power structures of the Union. I mean, they sound like someone likely to have arguments with everyone; that's probably a much bigger issue.


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                    • #11
                      Not really. What was described is very much about seeking out truth rather than making your own truth.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zennis View Post
                        He’s also Into Aristotle more than Plato

                        Should’ve mentioned that
                        I think Aristotle is a better model for a Technocrat than Plato. Aristotle rejects the more mystical elements of Plato’s theory of the forms in favor of searching for truth in the natural world around him.

                        Not that you couldn’t do a Technocrat who uses Plato as his inspiration. He would just be a lot more of a philosophical rebel than one who followed Aristotle would be.


                        “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Michael
                          What matters more is the extent to which they challenge the underlying power structures of the Union. I mean, they sound like someone likely to have arguments with everyone; that's probably a much bigger issue.
                          Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                          Not really. What was described is very much about seeking out truth rather than making your own truth.
                          "Seeking out truth rather than making your own truth" it's not exclusive to the Technocracy. More to the point, I have a hard time understanding how that it's related to any of the topics here.

                          Most mystical practices seek out "truth" every bit as much as scientists, they just seek it in a non-scientific way. Heck, it's far easier to find scientists being postmodern and making their own truths - just go to the social sciences academy, there's quite a bit of them.

                          Yet you don't see hard mystical practices in the Technocracy. And I would argue many social scientists with postmodern ideas (having a soft, functional, stance on truth) would be WAY more accepted in the NWO than one that believes objective truth that can be found meditating in the Bible.

                          Technocracy isn't about "finding truth" any more than the Traditions are. The way you "seek the truth" can be polemical, and if you're going to be vocal about these methods of "truth finding", you DO risk being Unmutual. Otherwise we would see Technocracy Reloaded being full of monks "seeking the true nature of God and his design" trough meditation, classic alchemists, and whatnot. They would just be a Traditions with a harder stance on Paradox.

                          Now, I don't think this character it's going to be such an outlier - but I *have* to protest when someone seems to think a mindset about "seeking out truth" implies a character it's going to be more accpeted in the Technocracy, because that's bullshit.
                          Last edited by Aleph; 12-23-2020, 06:56 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Aleph View Post


                            "Seeking out truth rather than making your own truth" it's not exclusive to the Technocracy. More to the point, I have a hard time understanding how that it's related to any of the topics here.

                            Most mystical practices seek out "truth" every bit as much as scientists, they just seek it in a non-scientific way. Heck, it's far easier to find scientists being postmodern and making their own truths - just go to the social sciences academy, there's quite a bit of them.

                            Yet you don't see hard mystical practices in the Technocracy. And I would argue many social scientists with postmodern ideas (having a soft, functional, stance on truth) would be WAY more accepted in the NWO than one that believes objective truth that can be found meditating in the Bible.

                            Technocracy isn't about "finding truth" any more than the Traditions are. The way you "seek the truth" can be polemical, and if you're going to be vocal about these methods of "truth finding", you DO risk being Unmutual. Otherwise we would see Technocracy Reloaded being full of monks "seeking the true nature of God and his design" trough meditation, classic alchemists, and whatnot. They would just be a Traditions with a harder stance on Paradox.

                            Now, I don't think this character it's going to be such an outlier - but I *have* to protest when someone seems to think a mindset about "seeking out truth" implies a character it's going to be more accpeted in the Technocracy, because that's bullshit.
                            True, but this character may encounter some problems if he’s super vocal about deriving his paradigm from Plato... oh, wait. Zennis said the character was more into Aristotle than Plato. That should be fine from a Technocratic perspective.


                            “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              In philosophy you can always take some and leave some. Surely belief in reincarnation and souls would be cringey for a Technocrat, but there's a lot of stuff in Plato that's much less objectionable.

                              Like, the Republic could easily be a Technocratic dream utopia, with the enlightened gold people being the chosen to rule because they've mastered the fundamental sciences. It could be interesting to see a NWO agent with that mindset
                              Last edited by Aleph; 12-23-2020, 12:18 PM.

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