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So is WandaVision the story of a Marauder?

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  • So is WandaVision the story of a Marauder?

    Would WandaVision be the story of someone becoming a Marauder if it happened in the WOD?

  • #2
    More a case of being a Marauder and then doing what WoD Marauders can't do: finding a cure.


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    • #3
      Or, alternately, just a really bad, but still normal, Quiet with a very powerful mage inside it. Quiets can be pretty extreme, but still be able to be cured.

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      • #4
        The difference is that a regular Quiet doesn't create a reality bubble that sucks other people in.


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        • #5
          Normal Quiets don't automatically suck people in. However magic can still be used to do so (even potentially by the mage inside).

          Wandavsion isn't going to translate perfectly to Mage.

          The story is closer to what a normal Quiet is supposed to be about in terms of what dramatic beats it hits, even if specific events would be easier to mechanically justify with a Marauder.

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          • #6
            Or you can handwave it and treat Marauders as recoverable in rare circumstances. Or at least reclaim a balanced where they can keep their reality bubble in check with hard work for the rest of their lives.


            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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            • #7
              For what it's worth, I've never been a fan of the notion that Marauders can't be cured and Nephandi are irredeemable. Sure, it should be really hard to undo these conditions, not the least of which is that the mage in question needs to be willing if there's to be any chance at all; but given that, there ought to be a way to do it.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                Or you can handwave it and treat Marauders as recoverable in rare circumstances.
                I feel this undermines their point in the game considerably. They're what happen when mages fall off a deep end. There's a reason they're not playable characters, but characters that fall into deep difficult to break Quiets are. There's a spectrum here, and they're on the far side of it.

                We don't need curable Marauders.. we have curable severe Quiets already.

                Or at least reclaim a balanced where they can keep their reality bubble in check with hard work for the rest of their lives.
                This is something that was at least in Revised already. You can't reverse a Marauder, but it's possible to help them control their status and keep it from getting worse, or even reducing it a bit.

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                • #9
                  I'd argue WandaVision is a pretty good example of what a Paradox Realm would look like to someone else. It wouldn't have all the imprisoned townsfolk but you could very much have the PCs try to go in and rescue someone from a reality that exists entirely around a single person.

                  And yes, "You can leave a Paradox Realm but you have to leave your fake family" is entirely the sort of choice that a mage must make.

                  Now add the Technocracy trying to kill the Mage before they escape.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                    For what it's worth, I've never been a fan of the notion that Marauders can't be cured and Nephandi are irredeemable. Sure, it should be really hard to undo these conditions, not the least of which is that the mage in question needs to be willing if there's to be any chance at all; but given that, there ought to be a way to do it.
                    Both curability of Marauders and redeemability of Nephandi are topics that I would keep my own counsel on as an ST. If players choose to pursue either, they can learn the answers, but I reserve the right to rain hell on their characters in the process. I want both to be possible, but they should take miraculous effort. Also, I would be looking for a Star Wars-style redemption for any Nephandi who came back from the Cauls. A change of heart can't absolve one of responsibility for past atrocities, and I think it works better for an ex-Nephandus to die redeemed than to pretend that they have any future outside an earthly or metaphysical prison.
                    Last edited by Bob the Skull; 03-06-2021, 03:45 PM.


                    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
                    - H.L. Mencken

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bob the Skull View Post
                      Also, I would be looking for a Star Wars-style redemption for any Nephandi who came back from the Cauls. A change of heart can't absolve one of responsibility for past atrocities, and I think it works better for an ex-Nephandus to die redeemed than to pretend that they have any future outside an earthly or metaphysical prison.
                      I have never been a fan of the vengeful notion that proper redemption necessarily requires death or imprisonment, especially for sufficiently powerful characters such as mages or superhumans. In the grand picture, you can do much better for the world if instead of rotting in a grave or in jail you engage in a proper path of heroic atonement and strive to do more good with your abilities than your previous evil. The world is never going to have too many do-gooders, esp. if they have very valuable abilities such as magic or superpowers, and it is much better if you atone for your misdeeds by saving or helping a lot more people than by laying down your life unnecessarily or wasting it away in a prison. Admittedly, it may not feel like proper closure to vengeful victims, but I care about their feelings a lot less than I do about getting the pragmatic/utilitarian best outcome, and I believe a lot more in rehabilitation and restorative justice than in retributive justice.

                      In this regard, the outcome of Wandavision leaves me satisfied as after tearing down the fake reality bubble, Wanda goes into seclusion to study and understand her vast power, and hopefully turn it (and herself) in a properly-harnessed force for good. The MCU is never going to have too many high-powered superheroes. If anything, I feel unsatisfied about the fate of Agatha. If she truly was so dangerous that brainwashing was the only feasible, non-lethal way of dealing with her, I tend to assume that turning her into a 'good witch' would have been better in a practical sense than a 'nosy neighbor', no matter how much the latter seemed 'poetic justice'. Not to mention a less severe violation of her identity and agency.
                      Last edited by Irioth; 03-07-2021, 02:38 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Agatha Harness in the comics could and did play the villain as a means to deflect trouble from those deserving help. Given how cunning Agatha has been in the past, we can't be sure if she's in custody or not.

                        If memory serves, both Doctor Doom and Kang the Conqueror have declined to tangle with Agatha in a battle of wits. That should tell you something about her abilities.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Irioth View Post

                          I have never been a fan of the vengeful notion....

                          Kindly refrain from telling other people what they think. It's always rude and often wrong.


                          "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
                          - H.L. Mencken

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bob the Skull View Post


                            Kindly refrain from telling other people what they think. It's always rude and often wrong.
                            Sorry if you felt offended, but I just meant to pick the opportunity to comment on the well-known Redemption Means Death trope and 'retributive justice is best' meme which I greatly dislike, and your point apparently referred to some degree. Never meant to assume anything about your personal opinion.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Irioth View Post

                              Sorry if you felt offended, but I just meant to pick the opportunity to comment on the well-known Redemption Means Death trope and 'retributive justice is best' meme which I greatly dislike, and your point apparently referred to some degree. Never meant to assume anything about your personal opinion.
                              I don't believe you. I also don't accept fake apologies ("Sorry if you felt offended"). I'm through with you.


                              "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
                              - H.L. Mencken

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