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Can mages mimic the powers of other splats?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Aleph View Post

    If a mage does it, it would feel very intrusive. To expand on what Heavy Arms said about Paradox:

    Just look at how problematic it's to give extra Strength dots (it has it all: Paradox if obviously supernatural. Causes Pattern Bleeding. Permadox or Genetic Flaws if you get them trough Cybernetics or similar - most of the time, it's just not worth it)

    Anything resembling Potence would have to start with those problms as base
    The issue with recreated the Ghoul isn't that a mage cannot do it. Its that a Vampire is more efficient at it. The Vampire can generally grant potence with a regular upkeep of one Quintessence a Month.

    Conversely pattern bleed is much more expensive to deal with costing much more thaum on the regular.

    Now Permanent Paradox and Genetic flaws are really where the vampires have gamed the system as it were. There are ALOT of downsides to being a ghoul(The blood bond, addiction, rapid aging without access to an extremely rare regular infusion) If one followed this path when building would be cyborg the genetic flaws being benficial to the maker making the user infact dependent upon them could produce some unique options.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
      Granting powers to others, permanently, is handled via the Wonder rules; in particular, you treat the subject as a Relic (or a soon-to-be Relic). For a sapient character, this effectively gives them the Enhancement Background, or a mystical variation thereof.
      It is *also* covered in Life 4-5 tranformations, where you 'bake' a magickal effect into a form - like adding Forces/Prime to the transformation to enable you to be a fire-breathing dragon withe no further rolls required to breathe fire. ( Mentioned in M20 core on page 517, and HDYDT on Page 18/19)
      So that is a venue that could be explored for baking magickal effects into otherwise (visibly) unchanged human forms.
      Last edited by Ambrosia; 03-09-2021, 02:13 AM.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Aleph View Post
        IArchspheres I would leave for the *trully* epic, not for trivialities like having some extra successes on mundane stuff. Stuff like curing the Curse of Caine, or re-enacting the ancient pacts of the Fera. And i those cases a quest could be called for, even with Archspheres.
        (...)
        The quest in these cases it's finding the Archmaster - but I think some stuff could require even Archmasters to do more than just have the dots (and that certainly jives with how Archmasters act in the Lore - Voormass needed the special sword, among other conditions, not just Arch-Entropy)
        All in all I think Mage puts too little emphasis on the fact that there is more to Magick than just having the Sphere dots. Trying to equal or parallel Vampires in some capabilities (like resistance to damage, or the influence of the Blood Bond) certainly calls for specialized knowledge and approach; similar to how making Primium is known chiefly by the Society of the Ether and the Iteration-X, or how the Progenitors are unparalleled in making various drugs.
        Last edited by Muad'Dib; 03-11-2021, 09:46 AM.

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        • #19
          Absolutely.

          I do think mages should do some kind of research or extra effort in order to make powerful rotes, although there is no rule to do this.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Aleph View Post
            Absolutely.

            I do think mages should do some kind of research or extra effort in order to make powerful rotes, although there is no rule to do this.
            Some uses of Spheres required additional skills or talents. You could make a system out of linking skills to totes.

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            • #21
              There kind of already is: there are Abilities associated with the Practices for a reason. The RAW way of making use of this is the Abilities Enhancing Magick rule. Alternately, the STV supplement Enlightened Grimoire has optional rules for Rotes, including one that lets you learn a rote with an Ability attached to it as extra dice in its pool.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
                Mages can mimic other power types, but it is of limited use. Now if a given Mage is a Kinfolk, they can use Spheres to mimic the gifts of the type of Fera they are kin to. This allows them to perform these acts without paradox, or at least a very low risk. Kinaine can do something highly similar with simulating Fae Arts. But otherwise, what's the point?

                Sure I can take Celerity with the Time Sphere, but other than attempting to con neonate Vampires or other similarly in the dark types it isn't useful. Paradox will still burn me.
                Kinfolk Mages are capable of learning level 1 gifts, including Gifts exclusive to Kinfolk

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
                  Paradox will still burn me.
                  Aperantly the Paradox rules in M20 are super generous when it comes to avoiding paradox and by contrast Mage revised is the only edition where it's harder to avoid paradox. Charles Seigal from the Mage: the Podcast Discord talks about this very topic.

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