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Where are the marines from Iteration X?

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  • #16
    What this means is that if you upset the local technocrats they will generally respond with the forces they have on hand, if they can spare them. If that doesn't work they will call in favors and the like to get others to respond in the near future. An MiB agent is not going to call in a HitMark unless one happens to be on hand, but upsetting an MiB agent is an excellent excuse to introduce a new ItX antagonist in the next storyline.

    Likewise, cross Convention exercises and major expenditures are usually not retaliatory, they are preplanned. The siege of a Traditions Chantry is a major endeavor that is done with a lot of preplanning. The characters' actions are excellent excuses to start that planning or move the timetable forward, but the Technocracy would have to be pretty nettled to get one together at a moment's notice.


    Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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    • #17
      Ok, if that's the case then I had the wrong idea about the Technocracy. I always pictured it as a single organization with each convention acting as a department, but based on what you all told me, the truth is that each convention is basically an independent organization within the Union, less corporation and more conglomerate. Am I correct?

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      • #18
        More or less, yes. There is a shared command as it were, but it's more a matter of coordinating the different conventions than it is about a central top-down command. This is especially the case in the revised era. But even before that, control consisted of five parts, as it were.


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        • #19
          By the way, I would only describe the syndicates in terms such as corporation or conglomerate.


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          • #20
            There is an important amount of Iteration X cyborgs and shock troops in Panopticon, the cross-covention methodology of storm troopers and reality-deviant hunters.

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            • #21
              It's worth considering that, just as operations are preplanned, responses to threats or situations will be planned for as best as the Union is able. This means that, in case of emergency, you're unlikely to see members of one Convention begging for help from another as the emergency is going on. They'd have already made agreements about whose resources would be made at the disposal of the other, under what circumstances. In essence, units of personnel (and/or their relevant hardware or the like) are kept "on retainer" by members of another, often to act as specialists or muscle in a certain operation or location.

              For example, a Progenitor site dedicated to some biological study or experiments may have a number of NWO agents serving to deal with spies or visitors. Along with Iteration X Biomechanics that provide specialized cybernetics or vitals-monitoring devices for test subjects, as well as a team of heavy-weapons cyborgs for if a subject gets loose or the site gets attacked from outside. It may or may not have a Void Engineer on hand to deal with extra-dimensional problems, as well as to keep up anti-"ghost" countermeasures (read: wards).

              All of these folks have their own places in their respective Convention hierarchies, but for the duration of their deployment they take orders from the Progenitors in charge. Just so long as these orders are within the parameters of their assignment, or they determine that the situation warrants going above and beyond their normal duties. (For example, if the Construct gets swallowed by a dimensional rift, no one is going to balk at doing what's needed for the Construct's survival, even if it's not "in [their] job description"). And some duties are common to all Technocrats, regardless of Convention affiliation, such as maintaining the veil of secrecy about matters Sleepers are not permitted to know. No one wants to explain to their bosses why a hole was punched in the Consensus - necessitating a great deal of time, resource expenditure, and paperwork to cover up - just because it wasn't technically the person's job.

              Indeed, one can assume even if a formal assignment hasn't been made, agents of one Convention will come to the aid of another if the situation warrants it. There are no doubt protocols in place to demand agents do so under certain circumstances. Complete with ones establishing chains of command in the event of an emergency. That way, agents of one Convention can't argue over jurisdiction when time is of the essence. Whomever has the highest equivalent rank calls the shots (it's why, despite having different names for everything, the Conventions have roughly analogous ranks; it's a standardization intended to facilitate smooth cooperation). If a ranking member of a Convention overstepped his authority, that's a matter that can be hashed out by an independent inquiry when the emergency (or "emergency") has passed.
              Last edited by Bluecho; 04-06-2021, 11:15 AM.


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              • #22
                Which all amounts to, you can probably find a justification for the technocracy to have access to as many or little resources as your story demands (at least in the short term)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tamuz View Post
                  Which all amounts to, you can probably find a justification for the technocracy to have access to as many or little resources as your story demands (at least in the short term)
                  That's certainly true. The reverse is true as well. The kind of Technocracy your story demands will push you to depict them responding in certain ways.


                  Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Firanai View Post
                    Ok, if that's the case then I had the wrong idea about the Technocracy. I always pictured it as a single organization with each convention acting as a department, but based on what you all told me, the truth is that each convention is basically an independent organization within the Union, less corporation and more conglomerate. Am I correct?

                    Think of it abit Governmental agencies. In theory it all works out to the president and his officials, but each Department has its own chain off command its own way of doing things. Someone in the Department of Education can't say Order Marine into combat. But there are all sorts of intergovernmental intiatives.

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                    • #25
                      The technocracy does kind of think of itself like a shadow government that's trying to run the world from behind the scenes, so yes. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's still a pretty good one.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                        The technocracy does kind of think of itself like a shadow government that's trying to run the world from behind the scenes, so yes. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's still a pretty good one.
                        Wait a moment.

                        think of itself?

                        It *is*.

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                        • #27
                          It likes to think that it is. But its control is far less expansive than it would like
                          Last edited by Dataweaver; 04-07-2021, 09:02 PM.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                            Wait a moment.

                            think of itself?

                            It *is*.

                            It is when things go right and when things go wrong its "Oh if only we had more control over the Masses they'd allow us to use resources for killing mages on climate change"

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                            • #29
                              Pretty much. Though I'd be careful even with the “they're in charge when things go their way”. It would definitely fit a right-wing narrative to say that technocrats manipulated the 2020 election so that Trump would lose, and have been manipulating the Biden administration in an effort to solidify control over the United States government. Given how much antipathy for Trump (not named, but heavily implied) was attributed to them in the TR manuscript, and given how fond they are of being in control, I could definitely see arguments for saying that the World of Darkness Technocracy did exactly that. But do you really want to go there?

                              For better or worse, I'm inclined to say that the Union doesn't have the power that it appears to have, whether things go its way or not. Just like it appears to be a monolithic entity, but is in truth nothing of the sort. It's got a good PR game, though; they've managed to convince many of their foes — and even many of their own — that they're more powerful than they really are.


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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                                Pretty much. Though I'd be careful even with the “they're in charge when things go their way”. It would definitely fit a right-wing narrative to say that technocrats manipulated the 2020 election so that Trump would lose, and have been manipulating the Biden administration in an effort to solidify control over the United States government. Given how much antipathy for Trump (not named, but heavily implied) was attributed to them in the TR manuscript, and given how fond they are of being in control, I could definitely see arguments for saying that the World of Darkness Technocracy did exactly that. But do you really want to go there?

                                For better or worse, I'm inclined to say that the Union doesn't have the power that it appears to have, whether things go its way or not. Just like it appears to be a monolithic entity, but is in truth nothing of the sort. It's got a good PR game, though; they've managed to convince many of their foes — and even many of their own — that they're more powerful than they really are.
                                I meant that more sarcastically.

                                The Union claims credit for all all things they wanted to go Right. And Blames the Masses lack of control, Reality Deviants, Paradox for when things go wrong. If they had the level of power they claim they wouldn' thave had to revised Science since.. the Order of Reason. We'd still have Humours and Miasmas and crystals spheres and probably them being Theist.

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