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  • So, what's the plan?

    For a long time, I've been trying to answer the question as to why I prefer playing with the technocracy and not the council. I found many reasons, but there's one in particular I feel strongly about, and I wanted to share it with you. (Sarcastic and exaggerated dialogue follows)

    Me: "So hey council, what's the plan?"

    Council: "To allow all paradigms to coexist in harmony."

    Me: "That's a goal, not a plan."

    Council: "Well, you know, we fight the technocracy to free the masses from..."

    Me: "No I don't know, and that's another goal, what's the actual plan? How are you actually going to achieve it?"

    Council: "We follow the guidance of the arch...o no wait, the avatar storm. Anyway, I meant, the new council will follow a more modern approach, that's for sure."

    Me: "Sigh...approach to what?"

    Council: "The ascension war."

    Me: "For the love of...can you give me a straight answer? What are the details? What are the steps?"

    Council: "We do the same thing we have been doing."

    Me: "So, making it up as we go?"

    Council: "It's not like that..."

    Me: "Suuuuure...by the way, what will the world look like if we achieve victory?"

    Council: "Eh...really cool? Maybe?"

    Me: "I give up..."


    Here's the thing, the technocracy HAS a plan, an actual strategy with a timetable, phases, and a clear vision of where they are going. Sure, it can be, and has been, a deeply flawed plan, one that has hurt and keeps hurting a lot of people, but you can see the road ahead and an image of that ideal future in series like Star Trek.

    Meanwhile, the Council doesn't have, as far as I can tell, a clear long-term plan and of course no concrete image for what the future they are fighting for looks like. All they have are generic goals and the fact that they don't want the technocracy's vision for the future. Survival and preservation are valid goals, but there has to be something than living in the past, I refuse to believe that the council and traditions can't evolve and offer a unifying vision without loosing their souls.

    When I play with the technocracy, I truly feel like I'm part of something bigger that is working towards something. When I play with the Council, I always feel like I'm in a giant ship where every sailor is doing whatever they want and only work together to prevent the ship from sinking.

    Now, perhaps my perception is flawed, and maybe we'll get something more concrete with guide to traditions. In any case, I just wanted to know if you feel the same way, and if that's the case, how do you handle it. I don't think the Council's needs plan a like the technocracy, but I feel they would be more attractive if they had a cleared strategy and vision of the future.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.


    Last edited by Firanai; 10-23-2021, 06:28 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Firanai View Post
    For a long time, I've been trying to answer the question as to why I prefer playing with the technocracy and not the council. I found many reasons, but there's one in particular I feel strongly about, and I wanted to share it with you.

    So hey council, what's the plan?

    To allow all paradigms to coexist in harmony.

    That's a goal, not a plan.

    Well, you know, we fight the technocracy to free the masses from...

    No I don't know, and that's another goal, what's the actual plan? How are you actually going to achieve it?

    We follow the guidance of the arch...o no wait, the avatar storm. Anyway, I meant, the new council will follow a more modern approach, that's for sure.

    Sigh...approach to what?

    The ascension war.

    For the love of...can you give me a straight answer? What are the details? What are the steps?

    We do the same thing we have been doing.

    So making it up as we go?

    It's not like that...

    Suuuuure...by the way, what will the world look like if we achieve victory?

    Eh...really cool? Maybe?

    I give up...


    Here's the thing, the technocracy HAS a plan, an actual strategy with a timetable, phases, and a clear vision of where they are going. Sure, it can be, and has been, a deeply flawed plan, but you can see the road ahead and an image of that ideal future in series like Star Trek.

    Meanwhile, the Council doesn't have, as far as I can tell, a clear long-term plan and of course no concrete image for what the future they are fighting for looks like. All they have are generic goals and the fact that they don't want the technocracy's vision for the future.

    When I play with the technocracy I truly feel like I'm part of something bigger that is working towards something. When I play with the Council, I always feel like I'm in a giant ship where every sailor is doing whatever they want and only work together to prevent the ship from sinking.

    Now, perhaps my perception is flawed, and maybe we'll get something more concrete with guide to traditions. In any case, I just wanted to know if you feel the same way, and if that's the case, how do you handle it. I don't think the Council's needs plan a like the technocracy, but I feel they would be more attractive if they had a cleared strategy and vision of the future.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
    The plan is:

    * Organized all mages who aren't Technocrats [changed to all non-Union mages including some Technocrats]
    * Fortify their Horizon Realms against invasion
    * Fight the Union on the beaches and never surrender
    * Help Sleepers awaken
    * Protect against the Technocracy's persecution of their belief in the consensus

    They've been on the backfoot for 600 years but here's the thing. THEY'RE NOT LOSING.

    The Technocracy has not gotten any closer to destroying the Traditions than they were in the Mythic Age and the One knows how many thousands of Unionists have died and how much of their resources is being wasted on the Ascension War that they keep fighting.



    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      The difference is the kind of goal. The Council don't have or need a unified vision of the world they want. Only the Technocracy have that. The problem is that the Union's plan includes eliminating everyone else in the game.

      If you can't feel that preservation is a valid goal in itself, you sure can't feel attracted to any other faction.


      #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
      #AutismPride
      She/her pronouns

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      • #4
        Before all of this gets requoted over and over, can I possibly impose with a suggestion?... Editing OP to add some dialogue tags? This is going to be an interesting post.


        He/Him... I just Love Witches.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Firanai View Post
          Meanwhile, the Council doesn't have, as far as I can tell, a clear long-term plan and of course no concrete image for what the future they are fighting for looks like. All they have are generic goals and the fact that they don't want the technocracy's vision for the future.
          They do have a concrete image for what the future they're fighting for looks like: Horizon. They constructed an entire Umbral Realm that's meant to inspire their members as to what a world under the Traditions would be. I'm not sure you get more concrete than that; yes Revised offed it in the metaplot, but it was a thing.

          And as noted, "survive the Technocracy" is a pretty important goal when the Technocracy is trying to eliminate all non-Union mages. The Traditions started as an alliance of mages for mutual self defense. It's the core of everything they're about because it's what banded them together in the first place. NATO, as it stands now, is a lot more than just a mutual defense pact... but that's still the core of why NATO exists and what bind it together. Countries join NATO because they want to be defended from external threats; even if those have changed over the years. While there are people that question if NATO is needed in the current time, it's not criticized for a lack of specific and clear long term plans or goals beside facilitate it's founding purpose of mutual defense.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
            The difference is the kind of goal. The Council don't have or need a unified vision of the world they want. Only the Technocracy have that. The problem is that the Union's plan includes eliminating everyone else in the game.

            If you can't feel that preservation is a valid goal in itself, you sure can't feel attracted to any other faction.
            Yes, they do.

            Everyone can do whatever kind of magic they want. The goal is freedom to pursue Ascension on your own terms. If they wanted to make a paradigm that suppressed other peoples then they wouldn't be the Traditions.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
              The difference is the kind of goal. The Council don't have or need a unified vision of the world they want. Only the Technocracy have that. The problem is that the Union's plan includes eliminating everyone else in the game.

              If you can't feel that preservation is a valid goal in itself, you sure can't feel attracted to any other faction.
              Preservation and survival are perfectly valid goals, and the if the Council and Traditions prefer the status Quo then that's their choice. My issue (which is entirely personal, I don't expect, or need, the setting to change to accommodate my preferences) isn't with those goals, my issue comes when that's all there is. I see the value of preserving the wisdom of the past. Thing is, I need something else, something to look forward to, and I don't feel like the Council offers that to me.
              Last edited by Firanai; 10-23-2021, 06:29 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                They do have a concrete image for what the future they're fighting for looks like: Horizon. They constructed an entire Umbral Realm that's meant to inspire their members as to what a world under the Traditions would be. I'm not sure you get more concrete than that; yes Revised offed it in the metaplot, but it was a thing.

                And as noted, "survive the Technocracy" is a pretty important goal when the Technocracy is trying to eliminate all non-Union mages. The Traditions started as an alliance of mages for mutual self defense. It's the core of everything they're about because it's what banded them together in the first place. NATO, as it stands now, is a lot more than just a mutual defense pact... but that's still the core of why NATO exists and what bind it together. Countries join NATO because they want to be defended from external threats; even if those have changed over the years. While there are people that question if NATO is needed in the current time, it's not criticized for a lack of specific and clear long term plans or goals beside facilitate it's founding purpose of mutual defense.

                Horizon is a beautiful vision, but the impression I got (which could be wrong) is that Horizon was something that happened out of convenience, a headquarters to coordinate their efforts against the technocracy. It wasn't an intentional creation to show a vision of the future, but a fortress that expanded as needed and then collapsed due to betrayal (if you follow metaplot). That's not quite the inspiring unifying image I had in mind.

                Again, survival by itself is not an invalid goal, if the Council wants to remain a purely defensive pact then that's their choice. I'm just saying that for me, personally, that's not enough and that's why I have a hard time identifying with the Council. It's a personal preference, it doesn't make the Council less valid as an organization.

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                • #9
                  I'm really not sure what to say if you're going to reject Horizon as a concrete image for the future the Traditions are fighting for.

                  What's the point of the thread if the platonic ideal of the Tradition's mutual philosophy isn't good enough to say that yes, there are more than a defensive pact,and that yes, they have a clear vision? You're not going to get affirmation of "the Traditions aren't fun to play if they lack a vision for the future," while we have the ability to point to what their vision for the future is.

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                  • #10
                    They Traditions fight the war in fairly conventional ways. They engage and destroy technocratic units in the field, fortify/defend their strong points and subtley influence the sleepers to keep there ways alive.
                    In terms of ascension a unified theory isn't really required since their ascension are individualistic. If the union lost tomorrow they'd simply pursue the distinct approaches without obstruction

                    I would also note the ascension war is in fact a 3 way struggle not a two way one.....and the 3rd faction prove that you can work quite effectively independant of one another without the benefit of a big map. Since its suggested they're winning.
                    Last edited by Ragged Robin; 10-23-2021, 07:49 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
                      They Traditions fight the war in fairly conventional ways. They engage and destroy technocratic units in the field, fortify/defend their strong points and subtley influence the sleepers to keep there ways alive.
                      In terms of ascension a unified theory isn't really required since their ascension are individualistic. If the union lost tomorrow they'd simply pursue the distinct approaches without obstruction

                      I would also note the ascension war is in fact a 3 way struggle not a two way one.....and the 3rd faction prove that you can work quite effectively independant of one another without the benefit of a big map. Since its suggested they're winning.
                      Well it's a 5 way struggle.

                      The Nephandi's statement, "Nope. It's gotta go" is a valid goal with an end.

                      Marauders go, "Fuck you. I got mine."


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • #12
                        I think it's okay for a discussion to evolve out of one's personal preferences and head-cannon as a player, but I suspect that you are searching for a reason to play the Traditions just to get some varied play experience. I would not enjoy playing the Technocracy as written, for one reason: Room 101. I wouldn't want to storytell a Technocratic-Union-as-written campaign, because I would be faced with imposing Room 101 on imaginative, rebellious players, which gets into issues of player agency.

                        If you enjoy being in lockstep with the Union's stated goals and following orders, then you see the glass half full where the Technocracy are concerned. A way of seeing the glass half full with Traditions is that You can be the Tradition Mage who pulls it all together. You can be the visionary leader who points to the distance, saying, "Follow me to...(use your imagination)".

                        The M20 Character sheet lists: Name, Player, Chronicle, Nature, Demeanor, Essence, Affiliation, Sect, Concept, in that order for a reason. If you are substituting the Technocracy's well defined Timetable for in-depth freeform Seekings, you may be missing out on the opportunity to play in a faction that does not punish deviance from party line with torture and Conditioning.



                        He/Him... I just Love Witches.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          Well it's a 5 way struggle.

                          The Nephandi's statement, "Nope. It's gotta go" is a valid goal with an end.

                          Marauders go, "Fuck you. I got mine."
                          Well the 3rd faction is the Nephandi. The closest I've seen to an approximate mission statement is that time I watched a Serbian film, geno cyber and a couple of gasper noe's 'charming' films. What they stand for can't really be defined by words, definition is afterall a child of stasis and dynamism.
                          Man....the nephandi are awesome bad guys
                          Last edited by Ragged Robin; 10-23-2021, 09:39 PM.

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                          • #14
                            There are also the Disparates, who as of the Alliance have as their mission statement “f*** the Nephandi!”


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                              There are also the Disparates, who as of the Alliance have as their mission statement “f*** the Nephandi!”
                              There's also the mages who go, "I don't care who runs the Consensus. I just want to make lead into gold in my basement."

                              Which was always an idea that was underdeveloped.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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