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  • New Convention books and Technocarcy's multiculturalism

    or:

    Technocrat, remember! In the West you control the Government, but in the Soviet Russia Government controls You!


    ***

    The Technocractic Union (or the Technocracy) is a big and integral part of Mage The Ascension setting. The Union often (depending on authors) is portrayed as if it managed to penetrate all spheres of activity of the humanity across the entire globe. It strives for Control, Security, Unity and Scientific Paradigm. Its component parts (Conventions) duty consist in guiding Masses to new horizons, protecting them, to research and implement new scientific discoveries, to claim new outer worlds, to shape and mold human societies – all in the name of the one Apotheosis Goal.

    Not so long ago, there has been an enormous country on the face of Earth, country, that started as unbelievably bold experiment, then fully embraced scientific materialistic paradigm, country, that believed in progress, space exploration and colonization, who’s society was shaped more or less uniformly, that professed a unique economic model developed by the European scientists, and that officially scoffed and discouraged all things superstitious and religious. In short, a country the mere existence of which in the World of Darkness screamed “Made in TU”.

    Unfortunately, WhiteWolfs GameDevs decided to “explain” (or, to be honest, just handwave) everything Russia related in the XX centaury by saying “Erm, it was all Brujah Council!” – no matter how improbable it sounds. So, other game lines were basically delegated to provide either a “supporting cast” (important, but not makers of the Destiny) or just “background” (some exotic Supernaturals of totally no consequence). In short – they wasted an excellent opportunity. In my previous posts I speculate about reasons, why at that particular time period (90s) it was done in such a manner. But, as time go forward and progress now allows us to access more and more data, “information is not available” becomes a very lame excuse. What prevents now from writing accurately about lots of topics that was impossible just two decades ago is not the lack of “books” and “sources”, but, more likely laziness and unflinching believe in the assortment of “clear truths” and stereotypes.

    Russia is barely covered by the original MtA books. Except a passage here and there, a small (and highly un-informative) sidebar in the “Guide to the Traditions” there is nothing that Storyteller can use in the preparation for Russian chronicle using MtA as the basic system. While some people (and a number of users of this forum) use a rationale, that lack of VtM related material concerning Russia is due to how it is “inhospitable” for bloodsuckers (a point that can be argued), there is no excuse for such avoidance of Russia when discussing willworkers. Unless, of course, some people (and a number of users of this forum) want to use an argument that, “Russia is inhospitable to Mages”, and that Russians are less prone to Awakening then any other people of Earth.

    But even less than Traditions are described the Russian Technocrats. Save for a couple of stated NPCs, I’ve found only one mention of Russian/Soviet Techs in the original MtA books. In the “Fallen Tower – Las Vegas” (p. 68) there is one Void Engineer, who’s team in 1991 was tasked:

    “…to help put down an insurrection of Soviet Void Engineers who rebelled after returning from a long Pan-Galactic mission only to discover Gorbachev’s perestroika dragged the communist stated down and left a weakened Commonwealth of Independent States in its stead. Seeing the Soviet fear of such New World Order initiatives as “Westernization” and “glasnost”, Houston reacted with the same righteous crusader mentality he brought to bear against Vietnamese antipathy. Initially, this won him friends in the dominant methodologies of the NWO, but the eventual reabsorbing of disparate Soviet elements ultimately hurt his position
    And that’s it – only 3 sentences! But this brief (and canonical) mention is quite important and could be milked for all kinds of story and setting relevant stuff. It proves, most importantly, that there were Soviet Technocrats in the first place.

    Naturally, when “new” classical Convention books appeared, I thought that this time, nearly 20 years since the publishing of the original ones, some system and setting-wise things (like poor, poor Progenitors) not only would be corrected and improved, but that authors would abandon their “Pax Americana” approach of describing a global organization that is Technocracy.

    Now, in my previous thread I got myself “a date with ban-hammer” for, as it was said, “making personal attacks on authors”, when I criticized products written by them. As it is (still?) legal on this forum to criticize products (but not their creators), and following that logic, I can only conclude, that all White Wolf/Onyx Path books have seen the light of the Release in the way of “Immaculate Printing”. No one designed them, no one wrote them, no one corrected them, and so, naturally – no one is to blame for all their flaws and mistakes, except books themselves. Books are not persons, so, logically, it is impossible to make a personal attack against one. Book can’t “feel offended” when I say, that some of its content are utterly wrong, weakly written or just plain offensive to some category of people. As the Russian proverb goes – “paper will endure anything”.

    (Besides, I really don’t see any familiar names in the “Authors” part of the books. So, anyone, please, tell me what else did all these people wrote for WoD previously. All I can see is that pretty much the same people wrote all 4 “new” Convbooks).

    So, let’s “girdle our loins” and see, what “New ConvBooks” can offer potential Players and Storytellers in the way of portrayal of Russia. How did the whole situation of Russia treatment changed since the first days of gameline?

    The answer is… not much. Sadly.

    Take for example, “ConvBook NWO”. Knowing what this Convention is all about (not to mention that Ivory Tower is responsible for “maintaining” history globally) you kinda expect that here of all places you will find lots of new material concerning Russia’s portrayal in the MtA setting. But there is virtually nothing! Yeah, there is a letter to some “Dr. Pyotr Tetrashenko”, that serves as exposition for the history of NWO. I must point out, that “Tetrashenko” is not a Russian surname. It is as Russian as some fictional names in fantasy and space opera novels are “English”. Anyone with the access to the Net (I’m not even talking about actual knowledge of the Russian language) can find out that there is no such surname – as, I’m quite sure, there are no “Zmiddz” in the angloshepre (if I’m wrong – then my sincere condolences). There are “Tereshenkos”, “Tatarchenkos”, “Teterevenkos” – all of them South Russian/Ukrainian last names, but there are no “Tetrashenkos”. And since when a Greek word for a number “4” has entered Russian naming conventions? The Book is silent. The Book doesn’t know – or, more probably, just doesn’t care with its “as long as it sounds foreign” rationale.

    But what can Technocratic professional historians say about Russia and the Soviet Union? Nothing. Nothing at all. In this (and other) New Convbooks we have “history according to Pax Americana”, as if nothing existed besides USA and GB. Even new Conventional “Places of Power” are nearly universally located in the “Western World”.

    And when Books finally mention something about the USSR (nearly always in connection with the Cold War), I wish that they’ve remained silent. In ConvBook “Progenitors” we read:

    The Cold War introduced new variables into the life of the Convention. It was suddenly incredibly difficult to get to a number of our assets by ordinary means, scientists in many countries were often in grave danger, and we were still learning to apply the espionage we had been learning. While the Masses demonstrated in front of embassies, we smuggled everyone we could lay hands on out of their host countries. The Enlightened were our priority, but we tried to take as many scientists as we could. It got complicated quickly. Many wanted to stay, protecting extended family and students. Spouses refused to be separated, others wished to stay and fight for all forms of freedom.”
    And in ComvBook “Void Engineers”:

    The Cold War complicated things for us. Void Engineers are born everywhere, and trying to move them out of the Soviet Union became progressively difficult. It was one of the only times in history that we and the NWO sympathized with each other. Every Convention had people caught on the other side of the Iron Curtain. But they felt the pressure as keenly as we did. We have not bonded with them at any other time in history. When the Cold War was over, the NWO retreated back into their Tower. We had much more than the loss of their companionship to face.”
    Ok, ConvBooks, answer me this – just why should Technocrats of the Soviet Union “escape” from their home country? What, they were mistreated here by ordinary un-Enlightened apparatchiks? NWO Operatives were under the thumb of the GRU and KGB and had to fill gazillion of forms to requisite stuff and ask for backup in operations? Progenitor and It X. scientist were denied vital resources, laboratories and research facilities by the Sleepers from the Soviet Academy of Science? How rapid Industrialization and the movement to develop “Virgin Lands” were harmful for them? Syndicaters, what, couldn’t’ step beyond contemporary dogma and study communistic economy model, as a way to achieve Ascension (and I’m pretty sure that Karl Marx, the author of “Das Kapital” was Enlightened Citizen)? Finally – why on Earth Void Engineers should be unsatisfied by anything in a country that was the first to launch first Man (and later – first Woman) in space, where every little boy dreams to become a cosmonaut, where not science fiction – but actual scientific treatises are written about how colonize and terraform Mars, so that “even the apple trees would blossom” here?

    It all makes no sense for anyone even remotely familiar with the scientific culture and life in the Soviet Union! Why apply real-world stereotypes about Cold War era’s “nevozvrashentsy” and defectors to frigging Technocrats?! What kind of trouble can some senile party functionary pose to someone capable of Enlightened Science? Soviet scientist travelled the world and participated in the international conferences – and nothing prevents the Soviet Technocrats from that. They would be better provisioned then ordinary soviet citizens, thanks to their connections they surely would have access to all sorts of “deficit” products and foodstuffs – even foreign made. Deep Umbra is not demarcated by some sort of Iron Curtain – so nothing prevents the Soviet Voiders from launching joint exploration missions/attacks on Reality Devs with the rest of their Convention – as they have undoubtedly done during the WW2. And should I even say anything about NWO? Without doubt, for them the Soviet period was the Golden Age, during which all supernatural threats were put down ruthlessly and efficiently on 1/8 part of Earth’s landmass.

    The Soviet system of the so-called “closed cities” provided an excellent (and, as far as I know, unparalleled) cover for setting up Technocratic Constructs. I know what I’m talking about. You see, I live (and write this post right now) in one of the former closed cities in the Moscow region. It’s not big – it’s been founded right before the Perestroyka, so, it just didn’t have the time to fully develop. Our neighboring (just half an hour on a bus) former closed city had been founded a few years earlier and developed pretty well – local Institute even has its own particle Collider built under the city. Our so different “Two Cities” were built (no, not by “the slave labor of prisoners of gulags” (tm)) right in the middle of the dense forest, that still surrounds us wherever you look. All my guests (some of whom were my players) that visited me here commented by calling my little town a “Garou kinfolk glade”. I only smiled sardonically at such comments.

    So, to reiterate, Books – what you say about the Soviet Technocrats is just stupid, illogical, contradicts previous (very limited) material and is just dead wrong.

    One of the underlying things that are common to all “new” books is the attempt to leave behind America-centric legacy of previous editions and introduce, sort-of, feel of multi-culturalism in Conventions. And it makes sense. As I’ve said many time – Conventions are global organizations and Technocratic Union is not (well, at least – shouldn’t be) a “Rich White Boys Club”. More often then not, though, all these attempts are just exercises in “Tokenism”.

    Case in study – NPC Cpl. Sacha (although it should be “Alexander”) Leonov. The back-story of this Russian FtM post SRS (done by Progenitors) is both touching and even believable. Here the Book attempts to address very difficult and delicate real-life situation, as well as to provide some “ethnic” flavor. Well, then how does this Russian character looks like?

    White Wolfs had a long “tradition” of portrayal of the Russian characters. In “WoD Tokyo” we have a Syndicater with criminal ties Mikhail Durubin, who:

    “…has the massive build of a Russian who’s worked his way up through poverty and purge. He now eats all he wants, and he has no idea about what constitutes a good idea: without Technocratic medical care he’d probably be dead already from obesity and alcoholism… His thinning gray hair is meticulously styled…”
    The WtO “Book of Legions” has Silent Legion Anacreon Sergei Tokarev who:

    “…was a loyal Part man, a Siberian mining town boy who worked his way up to become a high-level intelligence analyst in the KGB. He was perfectly content to stay blind to the excesses of the organization and his nation until his son Aleksandr was reported missing and presumed dead in Afghanistan. Sergei turned to the bottle then…”
    Fyodor from the HtR “Creedbook Visionary” is bearded middle-aged brutal half-mad Russian Hunter with the connections to KGB.

    Finally, crime boss and former KGB agent Alexi Zhukov from the “Aberrant” supplement “Underworld”, is

    “…still quite fit in his late 50s, with salt-and-pepper hair and a full beard and moustache. He dresses well, in expensive suits, and has a fondness for the finest vodka and Cuban cigars...”
    Don’t know about you, but I see a pattern of stereotyping here.

    But this is all things of the past! Let’s look at our present Book! Alexander “Sacha” Leonov, born and raised in the star-city, recruited into Void Engineers, who, undoubtedly, was surrounded by all things concerning Soviet cosmonauts, who, without any doubt, knew everything about Yuri Gagrin, German Titov, his namesake Vasiliy Leonov and many others, ant then got the power of Enlightened Science of Progenitors to correct his physical appearance – how does he look like now?

    “A bear of a man with broad, muscled shoulders and a barrel chest, Sascha has a ready smile buried under his thick beard”


    […]

    […]

    […]

    I… I just…

    […]

    […]

    […]

    There are no adequate “Facepalm” pictures to express my feelings now.

    Could you lend a hand, Louis?

    Ahh… Much better!

    Book! Whatever you attempted to accomplish – “bring ethnic diversity”, “support discriminated minority” or “be responsive to the current world problems” – you blew it! It’s not a character – this is just a two-dimensional walking stereotype that you unsuccessfully tried to hide! And I must ask myself – if I know for sure that this example of “bringing ethnical diversity” is utter crap and a failure, then what else if wrong with other characters? How can I be sure of the adequate and correct portrayal of other cultures and minorities in the “new Books”, if I have right here, before my very eyes this enormous, blatant and inexcusable … thing?

    Verdict.

    Despite all that I said previously – “New ConvBooks” are actually good and useful. They update Conventions to our time, fix some egregious mistakes and cheesy fluff, make Progenitors playable and provide some helpful references here and there. But, they are still to America-centric for my taste. I imagine that any Storyteller or player form the North America won’t have trouble at adapting this new material for further use in the Chronicle from the get go. In my case, in case of attempting to set chronicle in Russia with Russian characters – everything is sad. While Books don’t make Russia unplayable WoD-wise (erm, thank you?), they also don’t provide me with the same wealth of setting information. Ages old dichotomy remains – either there is no information about “WoD Russia”, or it’s such, that you wish there wasn’t any.

    Instead of exploring a golden opportunity, a ready for Techs setting, instead of avoiding pitfalls of national stereotyping and become a genuine and adequate portrayal of the global organizations – ConvBooks fail in all these. For me and my games these books require lots of work, before using them in my Chronicles. Like in that anecdote:

    “The Japanese have bought a license for an advanced Russian jet. They assemble it exactly by the blueprints, and it turns out to be a steam locomotive. They check the blueprints, gather their best engineers and assemble it again. Still locomotive. They file a complaint to the Russians, so the Russian team arrives, goes into the workshop and shortly produces a perfectly good jet. The Japanese are astonished: "We've tried it again and again and only got a steam train!" "Why, of course", reply the Russians, "did you Read the Fine Print? First you get a steam train. And then you work on it with a rasp.”
    Well, for me new ConvBooks require a lot of work with the rasp.

    So I ask other users on this forum, that come from the whole wide world – could you confirm/disprove some other national/ethnical representations in the new “ConvBooks” judging from your experience and knowledge? What should you change locally wise?
    Last edited by von Lyttenburgh; 08-16-2014, 05:38 AM.

  • #2
    At best I'd chalk up the way the books ignore the USSR as the same thing the Technos have always done. They rewrite their own history and being a secret society there's not much to stop them. "We have always been at war with Eurasia" type thing.

    That said, I'm not terribly convinced.


    Comment


    • #3
      And here we go again...

      One advice, it's just a book, you are feel free to modify the fluff or even crunch.


      “I am absolute, I am perfect, I am supreme. I shall be eternal. My tragedy, is that there is no other fate for me. My powerlessness was that I couldn’t subjugate my journey to the gods, while dreaming of rebirth at the end of distant time, like other pharaohs.” Ramesses II, Fate/Prototype: Argent Fragments.

      Comment


      • #4
        Agreed.

        Instead of being upset at people for not doing it, why not give us a different, better version from someone with a much better and more immediate perspective than would be possible for most of the people who wrote for or played this game in the past?

        It's like reading all the Scion posts were people are mad that the authors picked pantheons and gods familiar to USA audiences. That's where they are primarily selling their books. Pandering to your audience is a way to sell books and keep games alive. Sure, you COULD have the Slavic pantheon in the the core book, but Perun doesn't sell books like Baron Samedi and Raiden will.

        I'm sure that one could make a similar case about the Technocracy as it is portrayed in Europe, South America, Near-Middle-Far East, Africa or even Australia and Canada.

        So.... What SHOULD the USSR/Russian Federation Technocracy look like? How would it interact with the Technocracy of those other places, presuming that those places don't need a facelift as well?

        Comment


        • #5
          I would point out that one of the books in the M20 pipeline is Technocracy Reloaded which according to the description will, among other things, discuss the Asian and African branches of the Technocracy so it is very, very likely we will see the Russian branch of the Union talked about. Obliviously they only have so much room, though if they do a KS for it we might see it expanded in stretch goal, so I wouldn't expect it to be quite as comprehensive as you might like.


          Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

          Comment


          • #6
            The only thing I know about Russia is everyone has a dashcam.
            That’s the extent of my knowledge.
            If you’d like to take a knowledgeable stab at Russia-as-a-Setting, go for it. I think it’d be awesome to hear from someone familiar with the region.
            Otherwise, I’m going to rewatch Rambo III and Lord of War and pretend those are accurate depictions.
            Last edited by Nazfool; 08-16-2014, 01:25 AM.


            <signature> something witty </signature>

            Comment


            • #7

              Originally posted by Ajax View Post
              Agreed.

              Instead of being upset at people for not doing it, why not give us a different, better version from someone with a much better and more immediate perspective than would be possible for most of the people who wrote for or played this game in the past?

              It's like reading all the Scion posts were people are mad that the authors picked pantheons and gods familiar to USA audiences. That's where they are primarily selling their books. Pandering to your audience is a way to sell books and keep games alive. Sure, you COULD have the Slavic pantheon in the the core book, but Perun doesn't sell books like Baron Samedi and Raiden will.

              I'm sure that one could make a similar case about the Technocracy as it is portrayed in Europe, South America, Near-Middle-Far East, Africa or even Australia and Canada.

              So.... What SHOULD the USSR/Russian Federation Technocracy look like? How would it interact with the Technocracy of those other places, presuming that those places don't need a facelift as well?
              Personally, I don’t think that “Our Target Audience is bigoted/don’t care about accuracy, so we have to be bigoted/don’t care about accuracy, despite all our fine words about Political Correctness, Multiculturalism and Equal Treatment – as long as we are not sued” is a good excuse. But that’s my personal opinion.

              Just because such “cases” could be made about the portrayal of a lot of real-world things in the WoD books, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t.

              I, actually have a lot of materiel about Russia in WoD (primarily on MtA and WtO), some of which I’ve created years ago, helped others to create or have nothing to do at all. With some of that stuff (the earliest one was written in 2003) I now completely disagree. But, yeah, if there is someone interested, I can share with you. But that would be my personal take on events, not the “official Russian WoD community” version of Russia related fluff and background. So far as I can tell, all attempts to write something like that lead to nothing.

              Originally posted by AkatsukiLeader13 View Post
              I would point out that one of the books in the M20 pipeline is Technocracy Reloaded which according to the description will, among other things, discuss the Asian and African branches of the Technocracy so it is very, very likely we will see the Russian branch of the Union talked about. Obliviously they only have so much room, though if they do a KS for it we might see it expanded in stretch goal, so I wouldn't expect it to be quite as comprehensive as you might like.
              First of all – Russia is not an Asian country. Second – material about the Asian branch of Technocracy probably would be an update for Dalou'laoshi anyway. So, no, very unlikely.

              Originally posted by Nazfool View Post
              The only thing I know about Russia is everyone has a dashcam.
              That’s the extent of my knowledge.
              If you’d like to take a knowledgeable stab at Russia-as-a-Setting, go for it. I think it’d be awesome to hear from someone familiar with the region.
              Otherwise, I’m going to rewatch Rambo III and Lord of War and pretend those are accurate depictions.

              It’s dacha (дача), and, yes, a lot of people have one (me included).

              I would advise against using Rembo III as the source for Russian inspiration (in its portrayal the film is as accurate as “Blues Brothers 2000”). “Lord of War”, OTOH, has this awesome (and historically accurate!) scene on the former Soviet military base in the Ukraine in early 90s. But Nicolas Cage’s is hardly a fitting actor to portray Russians/Ukrainians.

              Comment


              • #8

                I, actually have a lot of materiel about Russia in WoD (primarily on MtA and WtO), some of which I’ve created years ago, helped others to create or have nothing to do at all. With some of that stuff (the earliest one was written in 2003) I now completely disagree. But, yeah, if there is someone interested, I can share with you. But that would be my personal take on events, not the “official Russian WoD community” version of Russia related fluff and background. So far as I can tell, all attempts to write something like that lead to nothing.
                Dude, metaplot can be safely ignored and modified, it's not that White Wolf Order is watching and sending HITMarks after unruly GMs.

                At least that's my opinion, maybe I'm too tainted by NWoD to be metaplot purist.


                “I am absolute, I am perfect, I am supreme. I shall be eternal. My tragedy, is that there is no other fate for me. My powerlessness was that I couldn’t subjugate my journey to the gods, while dreaming of rebirth at the end of distant time, like other pharaohs.” Ramesses II, Fate/Prototype: Argent Fragments.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by von Lyttenburgh View Post


                  Personally, I don’t think that “Our Target Audience is bigoted/don’t care about accuracy, so we have to be bigoted/don’t care about accuracy, despite all our fine words about Political Correctness, Multiculturalism and Equal Treatment – as long as we are not sued” is a good excuse. But that’s my personal opinion.

                  Just because such “cases” could be made about the portrayal of a lot of real-world things in the WoD books, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t.
                  That's not at all what I said or am saying. I'm not supporting how White Wolf has treated Russia (or South Africa, or Australia or.... well, most places.... even CANADA and MEXICO), but, BUT, when you want detailed treatment in cannon, you need to make sure you have an audience for it. Production of official material is a business. If no one will buy a supplement about Russia (or Zimbabwe or the Czech Republic or Chile or Cuba.... wherever) then they aren't going to make it. Particularly after the "book bloat" repeatedly undermined their bottom line and the all consequences. Onyx Path definitely opens up the door for MORE stuff since they can reduce production a tad by releasing pdfs instead of print books.

                  Fan-based material has been picked up and published before. (The Yazata book for Scion was a labor of love that ended up actually getting a print book). And there is definitely established precedent in any really detailed book to say that there have been a lot of misunderstandings from the outside and here is the "real" scoop on matters. Caricatures become less offensive when they become less the only examples and more just a couple of examples from a large array. Sure, there is definitely some two-stepping going on to make sure you integrate what has come before and explain why it isn't true anymore or was never true.

                  Accuracy is such a subjective word. To go way way way back, are real world Chicago and Milwaukee and Madison, WI at all like their original Vampire portrayals? Yes. Are there elisions, changes and omissions, some of which go from head-scratchers to being downright offensive to the people who live in those places? Yup. Are some of those issues related to people not knowing the setting in question well enough to please a section of their audience. Yup. Of course, you are adding mages, vampires, werewolves, etc etc. to the mix, so some changes are admissable. And the whole "World of Darkness, Gothic-Punk-whatever" makes more changes as well. But, you are correct, some are just ignorance and those in the know should point them out (especially in some cases, vide how autism was orginally handled in Changeling... (shudder)"

                  So, thanks for pointing out what bothers you. I have never been happy with how Russia has been handled, either, but lack anything relating to more than a superficial re-treatment of it. (I always saw it, mage-wise, as a high up NWO trying something out to minimize/exclude the Syndicate, while the USA might be close to the opposite, especially of late, but I never developed it beyond some vague ideas and a personal note to look up the Werewolf and Vampire Russia stuff to see whether to integrate or ignore what has gone before).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    At least Russia does get featured often.

                    My country gets HQ of Bratovitches basically, and German Nationalist Anarchs duking it out in with Polish Leftie Anarchs in a city that does not make much sense as hotbed of Anarch activity since there are younger but large domains with more turbulent history of social struggle. And there is the fact that our society is very skewed towards right spectrum that stereotypical Che Guevara worshipping Anarchs would have to Embrace from very fringe population.

                    We don't need questionably ultraright nationalist from the West since we have our own basically here. And if somebody really needs Anarchs duking it out violently and is insane enough to do it, let have two rival football team fanclubs Mass Embraced. For 99 % shattered Masquerade as riots get even more violent than usual when given team loses and even friggin' Sabbat balks at the sheer intensity (Not that our local hooligans and other wackos would not be perfect shovelhead material if used in moderation).




                    “I am absolute, I am perfect, I am supreme. I shall be eternal. My tragedy, is that there is no other fate for me. My powerlessness was that I couldn’t subjugate my journey to the gods, while dreaming of rebirth at the end of distant time, like other pharaohs.” Ramesses II, Fate/Prototype: Argent Fragments.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First off, TL;DR (and that’s saying something, considering the lengths of some of my posts). I got about as far as your passive-aggressive rant about being banned for making personal attacks before I started skimming.

                      As has already been mentioned, Technocracy Reloaded will include information on the African and Asian Technocracies. I don’t take that as a comprehensive statement, but rather as a representative one: that is, the African and Asian Technocracies probably aren’t the only non-Western Technocracies being included in the book. I don’t have anything specific to back this up, just a sense that Satyros is making a point to push authentic multiculturalism in the M20 line, and that it would be odd for him to have a book that purports to expand the Technocracy onto a worldwide stage but which only focuses on two regions of the world (Africa and East Asia).

                      Personally, I’d like to second the notion that instead of complaining about what Onyx Path may or may not be doing, I’d rather hear your ideas about how you’d do it if it was in your power to change things.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think part of the issue could just as easily be that few WoD products write about Russia in the first place - it seems to be a knowledge gap on part of the WoD and OPP writers. After some spectacular screw ups in the past (gypsies), akashich brotherhood 1st edtion etc with the worst of American stereotypes about other cultures getting published into a book... I think there is some sensitivity about writing about countries that are not well known or researched to the writers.


                        @von Lyttenburgh
                        If you are really knowledgeable about Russia and the FSU - please, I'd be very curious to hear what your ideas are. You are correct, there is a dearth of information about the FSU in the WoD.

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