Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Orphic Circle

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Orphic Circle

    I have recently had reason to become interested in this group. What do we know about it, where can I find information on it, and how might it be used in a Mage chronicle where the Underworld never detonated?



  • #2
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I have recently had reason to become interested in this group. What do we know about it, where can I find information on it, and how might it be used in a Mage chronicle where the Underworld never detonated?
    http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Orphic_Circle

    this may be a good start. other than that ive seen some info scattered in various books but i can't recall it. for the most part not sth of substance i think

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah; my search-fu was up to the task of finding the wikia page. I was hoping for some book references.


      Comment


      • #4
        WtO's Mediums book talks about them and HtR's Walking Dead book features one of its former members and the state of it after the 6GM. Beyond that I can't remember at the moment what other books mention them.


        Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

        Comment


        • #5
          Aside from the stuff Akatsuki mentioned and the sidebar in Euthanatos Revised, there is a section in Hunter: First Contact. I'm not aware of anything else.


          I attack people with giant insects both on and off the court.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tried to get this to you before.... HtR First Contact has some very ooky takes on the Circle post-implosion.

            Comment


            • #7
              I believe the Wraith supplement Quick & the Dead went into some detail about the Circle.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah; there doesn't seem to be much to them, especially if your area of interest is pre-Reckoning. And what is there has a decidedly negative slant to it. Which is not surprising, given their genesis as an antagonistic group for Wraith. The purpose I'm thinking of using them for would require putting a more positive light on them: in essence, I'm trying to put together a secret pseudo-Tradition of necromancers; and the Orphic Circle hits a lot of the right notes for its Greek-based faction. But I want the Tradition in question to be sympathetic enough that players would consider playing them.

                In particular, “we worship a Malfean” has to go.

                To clarify: I’m looking at using this in a contemporary setting, but one that differs from the MRev “timeline” in that neither the Week of Nightmares nor the End of Empire ever happened. I'm looking at this from an “original World of Darkness, restarted” perspective, where the “restart” involves rolling it back to just before the Year of the Reckoning and then having it develop differently from there: if the likes of Hunter, Mummy, Demon, or Orpheus make appearances, they will be in substantially different forms than what we got in the early 00s.
                Last edited by Dataweaver; 03-25-2015, 12:33 AM.


                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                  Yeah; there doesn't seem to be much to them, especially if your area of interest is pre-Reckoning. And what is there has a decidedly negative slant to it. Which is not surprising, given their genesis as an antagonistic group for Wraith. The purpose I'm thinking of using them for would require putting a more positive light on them: in essence, I'm trying to put together a secret pseudo-Tradition of necromancers; and the Orphic Circle hits a lot of the right notes for its Greek-based faction. But I want the Tradition in question to be sympathetic enough that players would consider playing them.

                  In particular, “we worship a Malfean” has to go.

                  To clarify: I’m looking at using this in a contemporary setting, but one that differs from the MRev “timeline” in that neither the Week of Nightmares nor the End of Empire ever happened. I'm looking at this from an “original World of Darkness, restarted” perspective, where the “restart” involves rolling it back to just before the Year of the Reckoning and then having it develop differently from there: if the likes of Hunter, Mummy, Demon, or Orpheus make appearances, they will be in substantially different forms than what we got in the early 00s.
                  Could you go into how this pseudo-Tradition would see things differently from the Euthanatoi?



                  Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    First off, they’d primarily be about dealing with ghosts and the Afterlife, and not really about maintaining the Wheel of Fate. Frankly, they'd have at least as much in common with Dreamspeakers as with the Euthanatoi: more Spirit-like (with an Underworld vibe) than Entropy-like.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So what are their goals in dealing with the dead? Is it similar to the Dreamspeakers, dealing with the dead on behalf of their community?


                      Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by marin View Post
                        So what are their goals in dealing with the dead? Is it similar to the Dreamspeakers, dealing with the dead on behalf of their community?
                        That could end up being an extremely variable thing:
                        -Getting people in touch with the dead they care about for mutual support a la mediums/spiritualists of a relatively modern sort
                        -Guarding against evil ghosts.. too many places and times to count, including a lot of places that Mage et al. has relatively ignored
                        -Straight out ancestor worship in a sense of propitiation to particular dead individuals... lots of Eastern cultures
                        -Worship of the "ancestors" as a group, not on a personal basis.... all over the place, often linked with, but not necessarily, to above
                        -Etc.

                        The problem I'm seeing is that really juicy stuff isn't all that Greek in origin. Greek/Roman mythology has a few incidents of people going into the Underworld and coming back (including, ya know, Orpheus, but what a crappy role model to take on considering how things turned out), but not a lot. (You get some "let's deal with the dead because they know stuff" - the Iliad,etc. but a lot of the Underworld myths are essentially "snatch and grab missions") The associated Greek Mystery Religions and cults weren't really about dealing with ghosts per se. From what we do know they focused on weird stuff that involved death, but more in cyclical way, Euthanatoi or almost Verbena like (Orphics, Pythagoreans, Elysian Mysteries, etc.)

                        It's still not a bad place to work from, but it might be difficult to integrate the rest of the world easily. They don't give off a "vibe" of being well-rounded in "death culture" around the world.

                        Unless.... maybe you could have the Orphic Circle still be the "bad seeds" but the group was large enough that included enough of a membership base outside the "Inner Circle of Evil Dicks" and, as those guys came closer to their evil goals, some of the ones who didn't know about and would never have agreed to such evil dickishness ended up becoming a "resistance movement" of sorts, and, as part of that ended up reaching out to other death mages across the world. Perhaps even still have the HQ blow up and take most of the leaders of the rebellion out with the majority of the baddies, but the remnants of the Circle that had reached out formed the nucleus of a more "Tradition-like" gathering that includes some of those groups you mentioned in your old Splitting the Euthanatos thread. (Which just means I essentially chucked everything I said above, but, oh well....)

                        So...
                        Core group: The remnants of the "Renegade Orphics" probably, strictly speaking, most of the "Euthanatoi" as per the Greek word designation for the Tradition (which could be the reason why the rest of the group ends up re-orienting on the Chakravanti as the largest, best organized group in what's left....and that's why the name changed"
                        Some Egyptians
                        Some Asian ancestor worshipers/Evil Ghost Exorcists grouping
                        Some Dreamspeakers who were culturally more Lower Umbra than Middle Umbra focused
                        Madzimbabwe
                        Etc.

                        Dunno just riffing off the ideas.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Orphic Circle seek the true nature of death and immortality, journeying into the Underworld in pursuit of understanding - that is, they're coming from a place of understanding the mysteries of death.

                          If you're drawing on real-world traditions of relating with the dead, the approach of the Orphics is very much a minority one - not a non-existent one, but a minority one. It's not usually why we do it, and I probably wouldn't have it as the dominant Western stream of a group drawing on those real-world traditions.


                          I should note that in the Orphics' original appearance in Quick and the Dead, they're not explicitly connected to a Malfean (that only comes with Mediums) - you could go back to that original portrayal without too much trouble. Just have the rumours about them wanting to drop the Shroud at the millennium be simply that, rumours.


                          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Heck, seems like the goals of two groups of necromancers (Orphic Circle and the Giovanni) could easily get confused via telephone tag when wraiths are talking about them. Assuming someone outside the clan figured out that's what the Giovanni want in the first place.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
                              Heck, seems like the goals of two groups of necromancers (Orphic Circle and the Giovanni) could easily get confused via telephone tag when wraiths are talking about them. Assuming someone outside the clan figured out that's what the Giovanni want in the first place.
                              As Quick and the Dead portrays it, it's internal speculation within the Orphics about just what exactly they're planning to do with all that information about the Underworld. I could easily see some Giovanni members of the Orphics jumping to conclusions.


                              Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X