Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How do wonders work in M20?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by NicoTheDuck View Post
    Ok Thanks !

    That's strange though. A non-published book is quoted in already published book... That's marketing !
    Yes I thought that was odd too. Back when I first read about Advantages, seeing that there will be a much longer list of Advantages in Gods, Monsters and Familiar Strangers... well that's great but 3 years later and the book still isn't out ;-) however I'm sure we won't have to wait much longer.

    Comment


    • #17
      Eh, it kiiind of makes sense, because originally M20 core was supposed to be an...even bigger tome, but the book binding just couldn't be done for all that material - HDYDT and Book Of Secrets at least are pretty much stuff that was supposed to be in core. Gods & Monsters probably too, so instead of putting it in, books still in the making were referenced.

      But yes! Gods & Monsters will be out soonish, for errata at least. It's in Editing & Art Development.


      >> cWoD Dice Probability Chart | | >> cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator | | >> cWoD Alternative Armor System
      >> cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System | | >> My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels | | >> 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Emerick View Post
        So i know i'm necromancing this post, but wonder cost still doesn't make sense to me, i don't know from where the formula came, since i can not found it in the book, it says that a 4 dots wonder is worth between 10-12 freebies points, the wonder background doesn't seems to cost double to purchase and it looks like you if you pour 4 dot of your free backgound dots in a wonder you will end up with a wonder worth 2 dots wich you can raise by pouring an absurd amount of freebie points ?
        I found a simple..ish explanation in the Book Of Secrets:

        "Assume that a Trinket costs one freebie or experience point for each
        point in the Rank of the highest Sphere involved in its creation.
        A ring that lets its wearer inflict aggravated Life damage with a
        punch, for example, would cost three points (Life 3 = 3 points)

        As a Background Wonder, a low-powered Trinket is worth
        one dot, a useful one is two dots, an impressive one is worth
        three, a powerful one is worth four, and a devastating one is
        worth five."

        So, costs for a 2 dot wonder:
        2 background CG points
        OR
        2-6 CG freebie points
        OR
        2-6 XP

        And in case of say 4 XP/Freebies, it could hold two level 2 sphere effects. 6 XP/Freebies would it allow to hold 3. Depends on the type of wonder of course.

        EDIT:
        ...and of course this explanation neglects adding stuff like extra Arete...

        IMPORTANT EDIT:
        "Because a mage who creates a Wonder must invest it with
        energy, and has to go through all of the other necessary steps
        described below, a player does not have to spend experience and/
        or Background points to obtain a Wonder that the mage herself has
        created
        . The given costs are for items that have been obtained
        from sources, rather than for Wonders crafted by the mage"

        Page 151, Book Of Secrets. Wonders the Mage makes for themself do not cost experience or Background points. neat. This, of course, would not apply to wonders you get in chargen.

        Wow. That one should be in big red letters in core.
        Last edited by Ambrosia; 05-16-2018, 03:46 AM.


        >> cWoD Dice Probability Chart | | >> cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator | | >> cWoD Alternative Armor System
        >> cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System | | >> My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels | | >> 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff

        Comment


        • #19
          Ambrosia THANK YOU?! I can't believe they didn't make that super duper clear.

          I am an Iterator-turned-VA sharing a Level 5 Sanctum / Level 4 Node with a Son of Ether PC, and we are both naturally very much into gadgets and hypertech devices. If we are able to craft Wonders collaboratively without spending EXP, that is a H U G E advantage.

          As for the Arete of a Wonder... don't most not need them? So a ring that lets your punches do Aggravated damage doesn't have an Arete score, I should think? While a ring which conjures up a small tempest would.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
            As for the Arete of a Wonder... don't most not need them? So a ring that lets your punches do Aggravated damage doesn't have an Arete score, I should think? While a ring which conjures up a small tempest would.
            Eh, the type of effect doesn't really specify wether or not a Wonder has Arete itself, or not.
            The type of wonder does!

            Artifact/Invention: Uses the Mage's Arete - hence only Mages can use it, but Talisman creation is simpler.
            Talismans/Devices: Have their own Arete rating - but everyone can use it, even sleepers! But they also require investing a permanent point of Willpower on creation, Stored Quintessence on use, etc.
            Charms/Gadgets: The 1-shot Wonders have their own Arete rating, and can be used by anybody, even sleepers.
            Grimoire/Principa: Have their own Arete, Permanent Willpower investment etc, but are also super powerful as they are meant to awaken or raise spheres of other characters
            Relics: Have their own Arete, Permanent Willpower investment, etc. but are a part of the Mage's (or sleeper's?) body.
            Last edited by Ambrosia; 05-16-2018, 05:32 AM.


            >> cWoD Dice Probability Chart | | >> cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator | | >> cWoD Alternative Armor System
            >> cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System | | >> My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels | | >> 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post

              Eh, the type of effect doesn't really specify wether or not a Wonder has Arete itself, or not.
              The type of wonder does!

              Artifact/Invention: Uses the Mage's Arete - hence only Mages can use it, but Talisman creation is simpler.
              Talismans/Devices: Have their own Arete rating - but everyone can use it, even sleepers! But they also require investing a permanent point of Willpower on creation, Stored Quintessence on use, etc.
              Charms/Gadgets: The 1-shot Wonders have their own Arete rating, and can be used by anybody, even sleepers.
              Grimoire/Principa: Have their own Arete, Permanent Willpower investment etc, but are also super powerful as they are meant to awaken or raise spheres of other characters
              Relics: Have their own Arete, Permanent Willpower investment, etc. but are a part of the Mage's (or sleeper's?) body.
              I feel like M20 tried to create a simple summary list like this but failed. I love M20 but I do feel like there are missed opportunities to simplify and present rules efficiently...

              And I guess a Fetish is somewhat like a Talisman/Device, except it has Gnosis instead of Arete and you (typically) have to best it in a Willpower roll to activate its powers.

              Comment


              • #22
                Another important distinction is that, since Artifacts/Inventions use the Mage's Arete, their use counts towards the limit of a Mage only being able to use their Arete once per whole Combat round for an effect - including any extra actions/turns you are getting with Time 3. Only one Arete roll total, across all of those.

                However something like a Talisman is its own Magickal source.
                Hence if a powerful Mage carries 2-3 Talismans that are all easily activatable (perhaps even reflexively like protection rings and such), all those things can potentially fire off a separate Arete roll in a single round! Likewise you could toss/use multiple Charms in one round.

                That is the big, big advantage of Wonders that have their own Arete pool - the limit is 'Once per round per Arete *source*', and those Wonders are their own sources of Arete.
                Last edited by Ambrosia; 05-16-2018, 06:01 AM.


                >> cWoD Dice Probability Chart | | >> cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator | | >> cWoD Alternative Armor System
                >> cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System | | >> My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels | | >> 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
                  a player does not have to spend experience and/or Background points to obtain a Wonder that the mage herself has created . The given costs are for items that have been obtained from sources, rather than for Wonders crafted by the mage"
                  You see, until now I had thought Charms/Gadgets to be woefully inadequate. I mean spending EXP to make a Wonder that might be broken or taken is one thing, but spending EXP to create a one-use Wonder which is absolutely certain to be lost at some point, hopefully through use...

                  Knowing that a witch can simply make a healing potion, or a crossbow bolt which inflicts Aggravated damage, or candles which generate a Ban against spiritual powers... well that's great really. It liberates Mage PCs from serious limitations and lets them pour some love into the crafting of items.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                    And I guess a Fetish is somewhat like a Talisman/Device, except it has Gnosis instead of Arete and you (typically) have to best it in a Willpower roll to activate its powers.
                    Fetish it's very much like a Talisman, but it can have powers you can't cast because it's empowered by a sepparate entity. That's a big deal, but it's balanced by having to bargain with spirits and/or having to beat it into submission.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Ho my god Ambrosia Thank you so much ! You are a life saver !


                      .

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                        Fetish it's very much like a Talisman, but it can have powers you can't cast because it's empowered by a sepparate entity. That's a big deal, but it's balanced by having to bargain with spirits and/or having to beat it into submission.
                        Now I'm imagining a Spirit 3 / Prime 3 Mage who tries to use Fetishes and other spiritual manipulation to fix everything... backed up by lots of Quintessence and great stats for bargaining with spirits.

                        "It ISN'T infernalism! I just got a bane of the Red Humour to possess a Vampire, turning it into a bloodleech, and then used my mastery of the Spirit sphere to turn it into a pet. That's... that's basically something Hermes would have done. I think."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Tytalus mage (in public): Well, but that's very bad and Tremerish, you're going to face trial for this!

                          Tytalus mage (in private): Very impressive. You have to teach me about those banes! . Do so and I will use my influence to get you off the hook in no time.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X