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Changing vampires into lawn furniture

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  • #16
    Originally posted by The Hanged Man View Post
    ... Wow. That's a whole lot of words devoted to a pretty weak joke. I especially like how it calls out the two most powerful Hermetic Mages in the setting by name, because nowhere near enough page space has been already dedicated across prior editions to robbing the Order of any lingering dignity or grandeur.
    I think it's all in fun. After all, Porthos is one of the mages that Mr. Brucato identifies himself with quite a bit.

    Last edited by Octavo; 03-25-2014, 09:57 AM.


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    • #17
      There is hilarious material to be mined from the vampires experience. Imagine the panic after a party as the vampalounger worries about being left outside for the sun. Its Stockholm syndrome over time. Its new roommate the tremere foot stool. Their plots of revenge. Then one day the master's useless apprentice takes the foot stool upstairs to reach the crockery on the top shelf of the herb room and leaves it out. Sunrise brings its psychic screams and the lawn chair leaks tears of blood from its cupholder. Oh woe, this eternal night!


      there are no bad ideas, just ideas that have not been refined enough

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      • #18
        It's only Stockholm Syndrome if you put them in an IKEA.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by SamuraiMujuru View Post
          I was curious how this rote compared to the "Remove the curse of God from a vampire" Rote, and it actually uses more matter and life. Curing Vampirism is Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6. I guess in a way it kind of makes sense, where curing Vampirism is removing a curse, physically changing a vampire into a piece of furniture is obscenely drastically altering it.
          The Vampire Revised crossover rules are generally more lenient to mages than Mage crossover rules. Magic isn't the story focus in a Vampire game and it eases play for Vampire-centric STs. For example, the Vampire STH generally only requires Matter to affect vampires, while Mage has traditionally required Matter/Life conjunctions.


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          • #20
            Originally posted by IAmTheSweeper View Post
            There is hilarious material to be mined from the vampires experience. Imagine the panic after a party as the vampalounger worries about being left outside for the sun. Its Stockholm syndrome over time. Its new roommate the tremere foot stool. Their plots of revenge. Then one day the master's useless apprentice takes the foot stool upstairs to reach the crockery on the top shelf of the herb room and leaves it out. Sunrise brings its psychic screams and the lawn chair leaks tears of blood from its cupholder. Oh woe, this eternal night!
            This is officially my favorite thing I have read all day.
            I tip my hat and raise a glass to you.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Wolfgar View Post
              Obfuscate might still work. Thaumaturgy paths might still work, and possibly Necromancy paths in the same vein. Dementation should work, because being turned into a chair shouldn't really inconvenience a Malkavian.
              Am I the only one picturing an invisible chair that can make you crazy?


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              • #22
                I am with all your opinions, but i understand this option, this transforms the Matter so than vampires couldn't resist it.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Wolfgar View Post
                  The Hermetics are badly in need of some love in this point actually, since they have been shit on pretty consistently from Day 1.
                  They're a bunch of autocratic snobs. The Mage equivalent of an imperialist power in sharp decline. They had their time.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post

                    They're a bunch of autocratic snobs. The Mage equivalent of an imperialist power in sharp decline. They had their time.
                    No, they are a fucking player character splat. They should be presented as such, with both positive and negative traits, to provide a compelling and well-rounded storytelling fucking experience. If they're supposed to just be an NPC villain splat, that needs to be made clear in the fucking books. Right now, they're just the "don't do" side of a Mage Goofus and Gallant cartoon, and I can not imagine what realm of batshit ignorance someone would have to come from, whether fan, writer, or developer, to think that's worth wasting word count on in this game.
                    Last edited by The Hanged Man; 03-26-2014, 03:31 PM.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The Hanged Man View Post

                      No, they are a fucking player character splat. They should be presented as such, with both positive and negative trait
                      Not all White-Wolf splats are created equal -- if they were, the Tremere (another Hermetic boondoggle) and Thaumaturgy wouldn't utterly trounce pretty much every other clan head-to-head. If you want perfect game balance, play DOTA.

                      The compelling thing about playing a Hermetic is that their paradigm is rapidly dying, and their ability to adapt to a new world is not so great, inasmuch they're clearly not faring as well as, say, the Dreamspeakers, many of whom have found ways to incorporate technology and urban life into their paradigms. In other words, it's a largely tragic situation, as the Order embodies the Revised-era theme of the Technocracy having won and of mysticism slowly fading; as hard as the Traditions, as a whole, got hit, the Hermetics might have gotten it the worst.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Raleel View Post
                        Why not? Life 5 (digging out my hardcover) is "Transform Complex Patterns/Create Complex Patterns/Perfect Metamorphosis". It specifically defines transformations right there into other life forms.

                        The better argument is that it should not require Matter 5, but rather Matter 4 "Complex Transmutation" which specifically lists transmuting living matter into non-living matter (pumpkin into gilded coach). One might argue whether vampires are living I suppose, but probably close enough considering one can make empty husks with Life 5.
                        No, vampires aren't living. They're very specifically corpses. The husk you can create with Life 5 breathes, has a pulse, a metabolism, etc. - it is, in fact, living. A vampire has none of those things, and is dead flesh without expenditures of Blood to make their dead bodies mimic life. You don't use Life to manipulate corpses, you use Matter.

                        The Curse of Caine and blood gives them as an entity the spark of life, though, which means you still need to use Life as well... and the Matter requirement equals the Life requirement. It's the same thing with werewolves; they're half-spirit, so you need Spirit in equal measures to Life to physically mess with them. In both cases, if you don't use Matter/Spirit in combination with Life, you're at half effectiveness or something. If memory recalls, this is all covered in the Storyteller's Guide.

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                        • #27
                          I've always liked the way Vampires and Werewolves don't fit neatly into the Sphere Paradigms. In a way they are just as much "reality deviants" to the Traditions as they are to the Technocracy.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                            The compelling thing about playing a Hermetic is that their paradigm is rapidly dying, and their ability to adapt to a new world is not so great, inasmuch they're clearly not faring as well as, say, the Dreamspeakers, many of whom have found ways to incorporate technology and urban life into their paradigms. In other words, it's a largely tragic situation, as the Order embodies the Revised-era theme of the Technocracy having won and of mysticism slowly fading; as hard as the Traditions, as a whole, got hit, the Hermetics might have gotten it the worst.
                            Oddly, the theme of the Revised OoH Tradbook was rebirth, so if their situation was supposed to be tragic, the writers really screwed up. As for the inability to incorporate technology, House Thig grew big and influential enough to convince House Verditius to merge with them so the Thig could acquire their pedigree. Seems like that House is doing well. House Fortunae also has no problem incorporating modern mathematics and theoretical physics.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                              Not all White-Wolf splats are created equal -- if they were, the Tremere (another Hermetic boondoggle) and Thaumaturgy wouldn't utterly trounce pretty much every other clan head-to-head. If you want perfect game balance, play DOTA.
                              That's a non sequiturial argument. You're conflating mechanical balance with compelling narrative. Whether all player splats need to be mechanically balanced is up for debate, but there is simply no argument from anyone that any player splat must be narratively compelling or it doesn't serve any purpose. The Hermetics are given neither the tools to make them an interesting villain, nor the cool factor to make them good protagonists. The continual portrayal of Hermetics is of bumbling racist idiots makes them an unfunny joke in their own gameline, and adds nothing.

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                              • #30
                                Yes, I hate their first tradition Book, and in fact WW had to write 2 Books like OoH Tradition Books on revised-Era, the Blood Treachery and his own revised Tradition Book (and a lot of mentions on other books tell than they are not "Technocrats with Staffs/wands"). On the first book, they are like Technocrats than in fact, they don't have any character template!!! They lack the points to empathy with them or any... but Revised Era changed that and for that reason i like so much...

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