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Disciplines don't cost blood WTF!!!!

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  • #46
    You can look at it another way too - anyone can theoretically learn how to cartwheel and there's no blood point cost in doing so. People are still gonna look at you like there's something wrong with you if you only travel by cartwheeling around town.


    When one is accustomed to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by TidyGamer View Post
      You can look at it another way too - anyone can theoretically learn how to cartwheel and there's no blood point cost in doing so. People are still gonna look at you like there's something wrong with you if you only travel by cartwheeling around town.
      *hacks into everything*

      *travels everywhere by heelie*

      *uses gun on every person who tries to stop him*

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      • #48
        Exactly! If you want to act the part of a dark lord who is guarded by a pack of wolves or who cannot deal socially with people without clubbing them upside the head with Dominate or Presence, or who fleshcraft anyone who slights them into a monster or who [insert weird, obviously supernatural thing that doesn't have a blood cost to maintain here] then the consequence in game is that you're playing someone who does that. Everyone is going to know you because you're a big, obvious, supernatural monster. Peasants will huddle around their fires and trade whispered stories about you and your depravities as an affront to God. When you stride into town, people will hide and lock their doors and shutters and hope you don't come to take them away in the night. You will forever be unable to interact with anyone without being that sinister, supernatural monster that you insist on being with flagrant use of your powers. That's the only consequence.

        Or it was, until the Inquisition was finally formed.


        When one is accustomed to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

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        • #49
          TidyGamer I 100% agree, but Obfuscate 3 makes all of your bad reputation moot as you stride into town as a Benedictine Monk. Like there are ways around the reputation as a Lore of Darkness... well, partly. Doesn't stop the pitchfork + torch brigade from attacking your Haven.

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          • #50
            The best way to reign in unrestrained use of power is to remind the players (and yourself as ST) that nothing happens in a vacuum. Word will spread. Consequences happen, whether it is from mortals or other supernaturals. This is the true reason for the Silence of the Blood.

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            • #51
              There were hunters before the Inquisition, they were just local hunters who dealt with local problems. If five mortals catch a Humanity/Path 4 Kindred during the middle of the day, there is little that the Kindred can do to keep them from sawing off his head or dragging him into the daylight. The smartest monsters convinced their peasants that their rule was better than the terror that would replace them (and they were usually right because there were always mortal invaders who would be glad to murder the men, rape the women, and enslave the children when the inhuman monster was dead).

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Zennis View Post


                That being said, I'm using the setting material as written and in this region, in this era there is NO ONE hunting vampires aside from werewolves and the war with them is open and the borders are well defined. In the Dark Ages setting, vampires often ruled as lords of the night with nothing to fear and the openly used Supernatural powers.

                .
                What setting material are you looking at? Neither DA20 nor the previous edition had Kindred opening ruling, there were always "stories" though about "somewhere in Eastern Europe" they did but that really doesn't seem to be the case. Every edition more or less follows history with "kindred do things behind the scenes" with a play up of how super important there stuff is. As for the idea that Hunters are in some fashion MORE common in Modern times when the majority of humans don't believe vampires exist is pretty silly.

                Every Edition has write ups of Hunters, Faith(which is much more effective in DA times and common), there's even write ups for Pagan faith and hunters in the newest stuff. Kindred have never been particularly safe from mortals.

                The idea that wars with other supernaturals are open and well defined is another "Where'd you even get that" Any forest might be filled with werewolves, any town might have witches, or Faith casters. The Fae rule quite openly but in their own ways.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Lian View Post

                  What setting material are you looking at? Neither DA20 nor the previous edition had Kindred opening ruling, there were always "stories" though about "somewhere in Eastern Europe" they did but that really doesn't seem to be the case. Every edition more or less follows history with "kindred do things behind the scenes" with a play up of how super important there stuff is. As for the idea that Hunters are in some fashion MORE common in Modern times when the majority of humans don't believe vampires exist is pretty silly.

                  Every Edition has write ups of Hunters, Faith(which is much more effective in DA times and common), there's even write ups for Pagan faith and hunters in the newest stuff. Kindred have never been particularly safe from mortals.

                  The idea that wars with other supernaturals are open and well defined is another "Where'd you even get that" Any forest might be filled with werewolves, any town might have witches, or Faith casters. The Fae rule quite openly but in their own ways.
                  Have you read Wolves of the Sea? It's fucking Viking vampires fighting off Christians and openly ruling the night!

                  The game started in Italy and the players eventually went into Northern Europe. In the more remote areas where Christianity hasn't penetrated, the Cainites are a force, they war with the werewolves quite openly and mages also use their powers without subtly. Read the Dark Ages Mage section on the Valderman if you want a bit more info on that, they're loud and proud.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Zennis View Post

                    Have you read Wolves of the Sea? It's fucking Viking vampires fighting off Christians and openly ruling the night!0

                    Have you? Because its "the Viking age happened 200 year ago, there's some vampires trying to say it still matters" Their culture is dying. There are SOME hold outs in the middle of nowhere but no where near "Vampires openly rule all of norway under pagan gods and fight with werwolves" that time if it ever existed was well n the past as of even the Dark ages. There are places though in the middle of nowhere where they might rule but those ways are clearly dying as the mortals turn their backs on them and the faithful kindred force their ways.

                    Plus you CAN have true Faith in the Norse gods and those vampires who "rule openly" have to be Pagan paragons they don't get to dominate everything, and have 30 wolves.. They have to act as the Gods intend and if not they are just more monsters to kill.



                    The game started in Italy and the players eventually went into Northern Europe. In the more remote areas where Christianity hasn't penetrated, the Cainites are a force, they war with the werewolves quite openly and mages also use their powers without subtly. Read the Dark Ages Mage section on the Valderman if you want a bit more info on that, they're loud and proud.

                    Loud, Proud, Few and they know it. They know their world is ending. Their time is over. They know the Messianic voices come and kill them and take their stuff. They know Order does the same with traitorous Houses. They take their ways to heart and when you run into one they will be frightening and powerful, but they are rare...and unlikely to support a Vampire who does not follow the ways of the gods.

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                    • #55
                      Open ruling in DA is seldom. A few clan books have examples of it in ancient times and it mostly ended pretty badly. That's why in Rome the vampires formed a shadow society. I think the only exception to this rule are the Tzimisce and even than only in their core lands.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Zennis View Post
                        We're using V20 rules and Protean two doesn't cost a point of blood and neither does animalism 6, the power that lets you mass communicate/influence animals. Look, the examples I gave were mostly theatrical but they are possible and that's the point. Even if my players will never have elder disciplines, the fact that Cainites of all generations can do things like this without spending blood makes a statement about the game itself and quite frankly I think that's a problem.
                        You should reread the rules more carefully, as Protean 2 does in fact cost blood in both V20 and V20 Dark Ages.

                        Animalism 6 is a strange target of concern, given that it's not a particularly strong power. All it does is make it easier to do what is already possible with Animalism 1. Since Animalism 1 doesn't cost any blood either, you can command arbitrarily large numbers of animals by simply giving them orders in sequence. What's more, you only have to roll to implant a command on the animal, while normal communication requires no roll. This means that you can bribe a pack of wolves with meat and just ask them to do what you want, instead of forcing them. The Gangrel in the Dark Ages game i played commanded a flock of Ravens as his personal spies using this method along with blood bonding. Notably, the game has failed to break as a result.

                        Way i see it, if a power has no blood cost that means you are in fact meant use it all the damn time, or alternatively that using it is its own consequence. The Toreador i played in that same game never turned her Auspex 1 power off, and used Auspex 2 on everyone she met, because why wouldn't she? The game has also failed to break as a result. On the flip side, both my Toreador and the Lasombra had Dominate, but neither of them used it lightly, despite the fact that we are the local Praxis (having murdered the previous one). Dominate is restrained not by blood costs, but by the consequences of its use. People really don't like having their wills openly and directly subverted like that, so caution is warranted when breaking out the mind control eyes.

                        Oh and a note to everyone about Elysium/Domains: Using Disciplines is not actually forbidden in Elysium. Violence is forbidden in Elysium. Whether the use of Dominate and/or Presence count as violence is going to vary from court to court. Auspex is not likely to ever be seen as violent.
                        Last edited by Lys; 02-14-2017, 09:47 PM.

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