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  • Kiasyd and Maeghar differences

    In the light of new books (mainly V20 material) something came to my mind about the Kiasyd changes from the original books (till 3th edition) and post v20 material, and the new "bloodline" the Maeghar, especially, regarding the embrace and becoming a Caitiff or keeping the traits of your sire's clan.

    So, putting in general terms, my doubts:

    1- "Kiasyd" was a general name used by fae-blooded kindred till Marconius lineage took it for themselves during the middle ages, forcing all other fae-blooded kindred to adopt the name "Maeghar"?

    2- Maeghar is not a bloodline but accidents that happens when a fae-blooded human is embraced and survive, turning into a "fae-vampire" that does not share any traits with other Kiasyd/Maeghar vampires, other than his/her sire?

    3- The children will only be a Maeghar if he/she was a fae-blooded mortal before the embrace and if not, will be a Caitiff without the fae traits common to the Maeghar? In other words, Maeghar can only generate Caitiffs if the children is not a fae-blooded mortal?!

    4- The so called "Kiasyd" presented in V20 Dark Ages are actually, Maeghar? If so, they will only pass traits to fae-blooded mortal? Creating Caitiffs otherwise? (regular humans).

    5- Does Maeghar have Necromancy or Mytherceria plus two "in clan" disciplines i.e: A Tremere that embraced a fae-mortal will generate a Maeghar with Necromancy/Mytherceria plus two of the Tremere clan disciplines Auspex, Dominate, Thaumaturgy? (I know it's an odd combination of bloodlines)

    6- Contrary to the Maeghar, the Marconius Kiasyd will have a defined set of disciplines, Obtenebration, Dominate and Mytherceria? Can they have Necromancy back again, just like in the original apperance (Or this still not canon)?

    If this 6 things are right, HOW the Marconius Kiasyd pass their traits as a "bloodline"? They all fae-blooded mortals before the embrace? Or contrary to the Maeghar, they are a true "bloodline" and can keep traits even if embracing normal non fae-blooded mortals?!

    I know they look the same but, the "Kiasyd" i.e Marconius bloodline, is now a true bloodline capable of passing down their traits and the Maeghar just the accidents of embracing fae-blooded mortals or they are the same thing but one is labeled after Marconius?

    I mean, can Marconius Kiasyd embrace normal people and keep the bloodline traits? If so, we don't have information about them in V20 dark ages (saying Marconius may be lying) and in the V20 Black Hand book. We will have information about Marconius Kiasyd?

    The Marconius bloodline is really a bloodline of just Maeghar that can trace their lineage back to Marconius? They are all fae-blooded humans now?

    Hope i made myself clear, because this was a attempt to merge V20 dark ages new approach of the "Kyasid" and the previous canon material but only ended setting more confusion for me.
    Last edited by Felipe Moulim; 02-09-2017, 10:48 PM.

  • #2
    Ohhh I've been planning to ask questions about Maeghar Kiasyd too for a while! But before I add my questions, I'll start with yours!

    So First, from what have been said, the Kiasyd (and probably the Maeghar too) will be covered in Lore of the Bloodlines, which should expand on the canon, and answer quite a few things of what you're asking about.

    1) Yep seems like it, (apparently High Middle age_

    2) yep, Kiasyd/MAeghar are more anomalies / faebomination than a real bloodline

    3) as per guide to the Tal Mahera yes, though DA20 was saying more that each Kiasyd was creating it's own bloodline

    4)Yes, but actually the other way around, the Maeghar are the Kiasyd from Dark Age

    5)Yes, though I have questions about specifics on that, see below

    6)From what you can read between the line in the Maeghar entry of guide to the Tal Mahera (the way I interpret it at least), at some point, Marconius a Kiasyd LAsombra, decided that his line will be the only Kiasyd and he decided to eliminate all others (with apparently a few slipping to the shadowlands)
    As for the consistency of his Bloodline it could be that:
    a) his line his more stable, possibly due to the rituals spoken about in previous editions
    b) child who do not show the characteristics of the line are terminated
    c)Marconius line is using the 2nd power of Mytherceria to identify potential child (either knowingly, or MArconius implemented the process in his blood with Domination)

    So about my questions!

    7) How do you think a Kiasyd/Maeghar develop his Discipline, especially Mytherceria / Necromancy, without someone to teach him?

    8) What Paths/rituals of Necromancy would you think are a good fit for a Maeghar?

    9) I Imagine most of the clans would have different reactions to siring a Kiasyd, who would kill the child / abandon it / recognise it i your opinion?

    10) what happens if a Caitiff sire a faetouched human in term of @bloodline discipline@?

    11) Any cool combination of clan/bloodline/discipline that come to your mind? I've got 2:
    -The super Special Snowflake, Tremere/Maeghar/Baali apostate = Necromancy/Thaumaturgy/Daimoinon
    -The Gargoyle Maeghar, with flight & Wings, but not ugly (like a certain show from the 90s

    Comment


    • #3
      (7) They develop them naturally.

      (8) Path of Haunting is Primary.

      (9) If it formed a serious deformity, such as a forked tongue or a vestigial pair of wings, I think most Kindred would abandon/kill it. If they're of a magical bent they would hold onto it out of curiosity, so a Tzimisce, Tremere, Cappadocian, Giovani would want to keep it.

      (10) They'd either get 2 of their Sire's Disciplines + Mytherceria/Necromancy or 2 "Caitiff Disciplines" + Mytherceria/Necromancy.

      (11) Since Maeghar's strange forms can include a functional second set of arms, has to be Tzimisce. Vicissitude, Auspex, Necromancy, Animalism (out of clan). Now just imagine them flesh-crafting the perfect set of Zombies to reanimate, or crafting their second set of arms into clawed weapons, or pushing the excess bone and flesh inside to form extra soak...

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm deeply concerned with this topic since it did, indeed, open a lot more doubts to the bloodline as a whole and made then unplayable again if a simple thing as how their embrace works stays unanswered. Besides, we have Lore of the Bloodline on the way, it may be the perfect (and maybe the only) time to give us the right objective information. right now, its a mess.

        If the Marconians Kiasyd were able to embrace normal humans and keep the bloodline traits, how they manage to do so? It was the ritual Marconius did? If so, it make sense for him to claim the title of the Kiasyd bloodline since, before him, there was none, just individuals with a common circumstance in their embrace (bad or good luck of been fae-blooded) and nothing else. Beside, this should explain why Marconious blood ended gain advantage in forming a bloodline in first place since the other Kiasyd were not able to do so, creating a populational control that prevented lineages of odd strange Kiasyd to continue.
        Lets say, a Tremere Kiasyd individual started his own bloodline since he can freely embrace, why we don't hear about it? Because he can't embrace freely! It's a great way to control the odd kind of Kiasyd bloodlines we would end up with. It's a good answer for the game in both ways. Marconius free himself with the ritual from this limitation and started a "true" Kiasyd bloodline claiming the title for himself.

        Otherwise, the topic about their embrace is a true point to be explained.

        Far from that, stuff like faerie mechanics and other strange old material of the Kiasyd bloodline do not help the game, i think, it's too much of an acid trip. Hope they can come up with a more grounded approach in line with the more solid bloodlines and clans.
        Last edited by Felipe Moulim; 02-10-2017, 09:06 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
          (7) They develop them naturally.

          (8) Path of Haunting is Primary.
          As far as it goes, blood magic can't be developed naturally without great limitation. They must have a teacher, books, experimentation and so on.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Felipe Moulim View Post

            As far as it goes, blood magic can't be developed naturally without great limitation. They must have a teacher, books, experimentation and so on.
            Not necessarily. Path of Haunting is just some odd scary moves, obsessions, morbidities. It's something that Maeghar develop without training for some reason. If they want more Necromancy paths they need to learn.

            Comment


            • #7
              Seeing as lore of the bloodlines is in layout....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lian View Post
                Seeing as lore of the bloodlines is in layout....
                Not far off completion now...


                Matthew Dawkins
                Freelance Writer and Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

                  Not far off completion now...

                  Can you be God Hermes and be the messenger of mortal prayers? Send this to Olympus and let the gods know about this problem before it's too late!
                  Last edited by Felipe Moulim; 02-10-2017, 06:10 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yup, if it's that close to be out, we might as well continue the conversation when there will be more material !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Felipe Moulim View Post


                      Can you be God Hermes and be the messenger of mortal prayers? Send this to Olympus and let the gods know about this problem before it's too late!
                      It's nearly released, so I don't think there will be any changes beyond minor errata. I wrote the Kiasyd however, and I'm happy with their presentation in Lore of the Bloodlines.


                      Matthew Dawkins
                      Freelance Writer and Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sweet! You probably can't reveal too much, but can we expect about the same volume per bloodline as lore of the clans?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

                          It's nearly released, so I don't think there will be any changes beyond minor errata. I wrote the Kiasyd however, and I'm happy with their presentation in Lore of the Bloodlines.

                          So, basically, wait and see, right? You certainly did a great job, that's for sure. Lore wise, i know they will be great and, in fact, i think they are better now since DAV20, but this is a mechanical major thing to make the lineage viable to be played for purists like myself, i won't be happy to houserule this kind of stuff. It's too big to be left out of it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kendaan View Post
                            Sweet! You probably can't reveal too much, but can we expect about the same volume per bloodline as lore of the clans?
                            Sadly I don't know what the word count was on the LotC clan chapters, so I can't confirm.


                            Matthew Dawkins
                            Freelance Writer and Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Felipe Moulim View Post


                              So, basically, wait and see, right? You certainly did a great job, that's for sure. Lore wise, i know they will be great and, in fact, i think they are better now since DAV20, but this is a mechanical major thing to make the lineage viable to be played for purists like myself, i won't be happy to houserule this kind of stuff. It's too big to be left out of it.
                              Just to clarify, what is it you don't want to houserule? If it's the Discipline spread for the Kiasyd, I can confirm that Kiasyd only have access to Dominate, Mytherceria, and Obtenebration, unless you follow one of the routes laid down in Lore of the Bloodlines that mentions good old Necromancy, as per their first appearance.


                              Matthew Dawkins
                              Freelance Writer and Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

                              Comment

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