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  • Opinions on a Setite cult idea

    I thought up a Setite cult and i want to hear you opinions on it.

    The Order of the Crimson Hawk is a fraternal order founded in 1890 in Cairo, Egypt by English businessman Colin Gauzeman. The club was originally meant to be a social club where British businessmen with stakes in Egypt met every second Sunday of the month and discussed goings on in both their businesses and the Empire as a whole. In 1895, Colin unknowingly initiated a Kindred by the name of Shakir Dagher into the Order. Shakir, who was embraced in the 1400s as a Setite saw great potential in the Order as potential servants of Set. Throughout the next ten years, Shakir schmoozed his way to a rank of leadership in the Order and started to subtly introduce Setite doctrine into the Order. In 1901, Colin died in a accident and Shakir assumed leadership of the Order. He immediatley began introducing more Setite doctrine into the Order and began establishing more lodges in Europe and eventually America.

    One of Shakir biggest changes to the Order was a rank system. Every time a member was due for a promotion to a different rank, they had to do a initiation ritual. At first, these rituals were doing embarrassing stuff like run naked through the Vatican Square while holding a Italian flag all the way to through half of your life saving into a bonfire. As the initiate climbed higher in the ranks the rituals grew more and more dangerous. One of the most infamous was having the initiate cut his wrist and pour the blood onto a snake sigil. On rank nine, the intiate was ghouled by a vampire elder of the Order and served the Setites until he was deemed worthy of being initiated into the tenth rank, which had the ghoul embraced and turned into a vampire. These rituals exist to break down a cultists willpower and make them more susceptible to corruption.

    In these modern nights, The Order is in 10 different countries and has 5,000 members. The Order's temples are called Lodges and are where members of the cult meet and discuss affairs within the society and with their businesses, this is the only thing they have retained from the original group. Instead of talking about how to improve their businesses, these men talk about how to spread corruption for their Setite masters. The meetings then always conclude with the Lodge Master and the Priest, the Priest always being a Setite Kindred, doing a ritual dedicated to Set. While the Order claims to be open for all people, it is mostly comprised of Businessmen, though it is not uncommon to have the occasional small-business owner or blue collar worker in their ranks.

    The Order's founding temple used to be in Cairo but, with recent troubles in Egypt they were forced to move to London. They are led by Shakir and his childer . Below Shakir are the Order's elders, ten Setites from the ten different countries where has temples. The elders gives commands to the High Priests of the Order's lodges which send their minions, the Order's mundane and ghould followers, to accomplish them.

  • #2
    Interesting enough concept but it needs more fleshing out regarding its transformation from a businessman's club/secret society to a full Setite cult.

    I can see the founder's death (murder by Shakir?) as a key point in the shift but I think more details are needed to create further interest in the idea.

    A compelling tale of how the Order subverts it's members and slowly transforms into the cult would give us the information need to imagine this, further, why are the rituals being performed in Set's name? Do the Setites believe this will help their god grow more powerful (I know Setite's like to start cults of Set and that's it is part of the clan culture)? Why does every cult have a priest and how does this kindred relate to Shakir and the local followers? Is the Lodge Master a ghoul?

    And most importantly, what are the cults goals???

    This would all be quite interesting to find out, it'll also help you if you ever introduce the cult in a game you run

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Zennis View Post
      Interesting enough concept but it needs more fleshing out regarding its transformation from a businessman's club/secret society to a full Setite cult.

      I can see the founder's death (murder by Shakir?) as a key point in the shift but I think more details are needed to create further interest in the idea.

      A compelling tale of how the Order subverts it's members and slowly transforms into the cult would give us the information need to imagine this, further, why are the rituals being performed in Set's name? Do the Setites believe this will help their god grow more powerful (I know Setite's like to start cults of Set and that's it is part of the clan culture)? Why does every cult have a priest and how does this kindred relate to Shakir and the local followers? Is the Lodge Master a ghoul?

      And most importantly, what are the cults goals???

      This would all be quite interesting to find out, it'll also help you if you ever introduce the cult in a game you run
      ​Well, the purpose of the cult is twofold. They want to spread corruption in the business world and help their Setite masters get a foothold in the corporate world. I would think Shakir introducing Setite doctrine and customs would've changed the Order. They probably wanted to attract members the same way the Freemasons attract members, with curiosity about their rituals. The priest is basically the spiritual head of the lodge and not only commands the cultists, but any new neonates. The Lodge Master is the public face of the cult and is almost always a ghoul. The initiation into different ranks are meant to be embarrassing and exhausting to make them more susceptible to corruption, thus giving Set more servants. I could write some fiction about a businessman going through one of the initiation rituals to give more detail on it if you want.

      Comment


      • #4
        While I like the basic concept of the cult, some aspects of it are contradictory in nature, which can lead to problems.

        ​If the goal of the cult is to create business opportunities for the clan, then the focus needs to shift slightly. Business, especially cut throat big business attracts sociopathic types who often have large egos. They won't embaress themselves publically as a rule of thumb. Ask them to sire an offspring for the express purpose of selling it into slavery and that is more fitting. Also in todays world of cell phone cameras and the internet, running your elite business members naked through the streets only serves to undermine their public credibility. ​You want to focus on getting the cult members invested in maintaining the cult, not out of devotion, but greed. Greed for more power, more money, more influence. Greed is a drug that they will give themselves over to every time.

        ​When building a cult to create devoted worshippers in the religious sense, then you want to use displays of humility and psychologically breaking down the recruit so that they lose a sense of self and are defined by their cult. The recruit gives up personal identity and personal goals with this style of cult and that makes for excellent cannon fodder or recruiters. But they will not be terribly functional as a business CEO. One could make the argument that their are plenty of high power lawyers and business types who secretly have a submissive side, but that tends to only be displayed in private on their terms, never in public or to their detriment.

        ​Another thing to consider is that the more visible a cult is to the public, the less functional it is in general. A secret society where people come together and make agreements that transcend boarders or nationalities tend to get results. A public club that acts like a cross between a Bond Villain training school and a college frat house is at best not taken seriously or at worst ends up on every ones watch lists.

        ​On the subject of building cults, it is best to have clearly defined goals for the cult. Like you build one in a city to expressly assist the clan is gaining control over the ports or the drug trade. This style of mission statement means that when you are designing a story or plot point in regards to the cult, you ask yourself if the proposed concept is in sync with the mission statement of the cult. Obviously you will have to change the mission statement once the goal is achieved or with changing circumstances, but those are major events that should be the focus of an entire story, like if the Setites ran the red cross, after having spent a century plus building it up as a humanitarian effort it was finally time to switch gears and have it start doing human trafficking or what ever.

        ​Cults should almost be treated like fully formed characters in that no two will be identical, nor will they function in the same way.

        But that's just my two cents on the matter.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Thoth View Post
          While I like the basic concept of the cult, some aspects of it are contradictory in nature, which can lead to problems.

          ​If the goal of the cult is to create business opportunities for the clan, then the focus needs to shift slightly. Business, especially cut throat big business attracts sociopathic types who often have large egos. They won't embaress themselves publically as a rule of thumb. Ask them to sire an offspring for the express purpose of selling it into slavery and that is more fitting. Also in todays world of cell phone cameras and the internet, running your elite business members naked through the streets only serves to undermine their public credibility. ​You want to focus on getting the cult members invested in maintaining the cult, not out of devotion, but greed. Greed for more power, more money, more influence. Greed is a drug that they will give themselves over to every time.

          ​When building a cult to create devoted worshippers in the religious sense, then you want to use displays of humility and psychologically breaking down the recruit so that they lose a sense of self and are defined by their cult. The recruit gives up personal identity and personal goals with this style of cult and that makes for excellent cannon fodder or recruiters. But they will not be terribly functional as a business CEO. One could make the argument that their are plenty of high power lawyers and business types who secretly have a submissive side, but that tends to only be displayed in private on their terms, never in public or to their detriment.

          ​Another thing to consider is that the more visible a cult is to the public, the less functional it is in general. A secret society where people come together and make agreements that transcend boarders or nationalities tend to get results. A public club that acts like a cross between a Bond Villain training school and a college frat house is at best not taken seriously or at worst ends up on every ones watch lists.

          ​On the subject of building cults, it is best to have clearly defined goals for the cult. Like you build one in a city to expressly assist the clan is gaining control over the ports or the drug trade. This style of mission statement means that when you are designing a story or plot point in regards to the cult, you ask yourself if the proposed concept is in sync with the mission statement of the cult. Obviously you will have to change the mission statement once the goal is achieved or with changing circumstances, but those are major events that should be the focus of an entire story, like if the Setites ran the red cross, after having spent a century plus building it up as a humanitarian effort it was finally time to switch gears and have it start doing human trafficking or what ever.

          ​Cults should almost be treated like fully formed characters in that no two will be identical, nor will they function in the same way.

          But that's just my two cents on the matter.
          ​You make some good points. Perhaps the next rank initiation ceremonies should not be embarrassing types but more subtle techniques. For example, the Setite priest could ask a lawyer member to pull some strings and have his ghoul released from jail. Meanwhile, The Lodge Master could ask a member who is Blue Collar to kidnap a member who jumped ship. Also, I could most definitely see the Setites using monetary promises to recruit potential recruits. Also, a Setite in this cult would embrace someone who is a high-enough rank in the cult to do so.

          Comment


          • #6
            I like the idea in general. It gives off that sort of masonic society vibe. Group of wealthy European gentlemen practicing the occult to get the edge through foreign religion. That said, I think you might need to expand the ideology a bit more. The key to a lot of Setite cults seems to be a good basis for the cultists. All we really have here is a vague statement that Setite doctrine was introduced in general. I think you should get rather specific in regards to what they view as their holy mission/goal/influence and also try to differentiate it from just 'random Setite Cult.'

            I think what I always find interesting about their varying cults is their different associated gods. So you can associate Typhon, Echidna, Serpent of the Garden, Jormungandr, etc. through the idea of Set. So perhaps trying to find a religion of that sort that a typical English person might know.

            Comment


            • #7
              It would be interesting to see an alternative secret society created around exposing married Victorian upper class women to the pleasures and perversions of sexuality. With her blood, a single Setite priestess could maintain a stable of twenty 'young' male ghouls, infertile yet virile, who would satisfy the sexual desires of the four hundred sexually repressed women (and the women would be encouraged to experiment with lesbian sex while they were within the grounds of the temple). With each visit, the Setite priestess would gently push the women into greater depths of the pleasures and perversions of sexuality, until they were utterly dependent on the temple for their sexual pleasures, as their fumbling husbands would no longer be able to give them sexual pleasure (assuming that he could in the first place).

              The married women would be able to pay the Setite priestess in information gathered from overhearing the drunken conversations of their husbands and their husband's guests during dinner parties. The Setite priestess would use the information gathered to make educated investments and to avoid the actions of mortal authorities. On occasion, the Setite priestess would ask the women to slip a vial of something in the wine of their husbands or their husband's guests, which could have any range of effects depending on the ritual used by the Setite priestess.

              In the case of the female secret society, it would act to complement the activities of the male secret society. When a man decided not to join the male secret society, their wives (or nearest female relatives) would be lured into the female secret society. Two Setites working together, one female and one male, could have an entire city in their hands.

              With the evolution in a modern society, the female secret society could maintain its control by giving its female members access to sexual pleasures that they could not gain from the men in their lives. The female members would have power of their own though, so the Setite priestess could leverage her influence on them for direct information and direct control. The Setite priestess would target female executives and managers and, though her influence, would arrange for the female members to be elevated to the highest positions of corporate power.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                It would be interesting to see an alternative secret society created around exposing married Victorian upper class women to the pleasures and perversions of sexuality. With her blood, a single Setite priestess could maintain a stable of twenty 'young' male ghouls, infertile yet virile, who would satisfy the sexual desires of the four hundred sexually repressed women (and the women would be encouraged to experiment with lesbian sex while they were within the grounds of the temple). With each visit, the Setite priestess would gently push the women into greater depths of the pleasures and perversions of sexuality, until they were utterly dependent on the temple for their sexual pleasures, as their fumbling husbands would no longer be able to give them sexual pleasure (assuming that he could in the first place).

                The married women would be able to pay the Setite priestess in information gathered from overhearing the drunken conversations of their husbands and their husband's guests during dinner parties. The Setite priestess would use the information gathered to make educated investments and to avoid the actions of mortal authorities. On occasion, the Setite priestess would ask the women to slip a vial of something in the wine of their husbands or their husband's guests, which could have any range of effects depending on the ritual used by the Setite priestess.

                In the case of the female secret society, it would act to complement the activities of the male secret society. When a man decided not to join the male secret society, their wives (or nearest female relatives) would be lured into the female secret society. Two Setites working together, one female and one male, could have an entire city in their hands.

                With the evolution in a modern society, the female secret society could maintain its control by giving its female members access to sexual pleasures that they could not gain from the men in their lives. The female members would have power of their own though, so the Setite priestess could leverage her influence on them for direct information and direct control. The Setite priestess would target female executives and managers and, though her influence, would arrange for the female members to be elevated to the highest positions of corporate power.
                It's a bit... squicky. And that's coming from ME. I'm a pervert. Victorian Women being repressed doesn't mean they're suddenly going to jump at the chance to do the deed.

                It's a good idea (liked), but I'd reframe it. The leader of the Cult is a driving force among the women of London. She's beautiful, well-bred, sophisticated, does good deeds, is incredibly rich and unmarried. And naturally, no influential, pretty, rich or well-bred lady could resist a chance to meet her. The Port doesn't even taste off (she has the Sweet Blood merit) and she quickly gets the ladies on her side, by offering them a little bit of power. Presence 1 can go a long way for a woman in Victorian London. Now she has them functionally serving her, yes, but what she needs is Corruption and Devotion. Then things can heat up a bit. Naturally this lady has very handsome servants. All of them are stunning specimens, and there are a few scandalous rumours about the city (she's far too powerful for them to matter, naturally) about her conduct. And since she's SUCH good friends with these ladies, she'd be more than willing to let them... indulge. Such an offer would be made when the lady was blood bonded, under Presence and being affected by the ritual Sutekh's Brew, which can sap Will. And once you've broken through sexual repression, then comes the surge of discovery. Now they're addicted. Oh, yes, you can see Rupert again... if you bring along some promising young debs to join our "club".

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am still debating which God they serve. It is tied between Echidna or the serpent from Norse Myth. Also, they could believe that their God wants them accumulate much power and wealth as possible before Gehenna. They view Setities as the ultimate form of power and seek to be as powerful as them

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Killerclown View Post
                    I am still debating which God they serve. It is tied between Echidna or the serpent from Norse Myth. Also, they could believe that their God wants them accumulate much power and wealth as possible before Gehenna. They view Setities as the ultimate form of power and seek to be as powerful as them
                    The God doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that the leader of the cult either believes in the God, or is playing everyone and doesn't believe in it, or is a Gnostic who wants to end the world to free everyone (that's most Setite Methesulahs, and the point of the Clan). All of those are cool in their own way.

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                    • #11
                      Perhaps i can do the Gnostic thing. Also, i could just have them worship Set himself. Here is also a fiction for the group in the POV of one of their members.

                      Dr. Alvin Carter sighed with relief when he looked at his watch. It was 5:00 PM. It had been a long day filled with whiny kids and uncooperative patients. As he walked out, he gave the customary good-bye to his hygienist, Shelly. As Alvin walked to his car he turned around and took one more look at the building he walked out off. It was a humble looking building that was made of brick and plaster and had a tooth-shaped sign that said," Dr. Alvin Carter, DDS." Carter let out a sigh of satisfaction. He had keep his dentistry opened for 10 years and managed to survive many things, including a lawsuit and a fire. But, there was no time to delay himself with these memories, tonight was a special night.

                      One the way home, Alvin called his wife, who usually got out of work at this time, and told her to pick up some fast food on the way home. When he got home, he smelt the all to familiar scent of a O'Tolley's value meal. As he sat down, he heard the sound of clicking high-heels coming towards the kitchen. He then heard a voice say," Welcome home hon." Alvin smiled as he turned around and greeted his wife, Barbara. She was still wearing her work clothes.

                      " Hello Honey". Alvin said with a smile as his wife sat down to join him for dinner. As they ate, they described their days at work and how stressful it was. Alvin told his wife about a kid patient who threw a fit because he could not have a lollipop after his root canal while his wife told him about that bastard of a HR rep who refused to move her office away from that dammed chatterbox that sat next to her. Suddenly, Barbara said to her husband," What are you planning tonight."?

                      "I am going out."
                      "Where?"
                      It's the second Sunday of the month." I'm going to join the guys over at the lodge."

                      Barbara sighed. Of course her husband was going out to that club. Granted, she knew he was a Falconer ever since she first met his. But, he attended these meetings and followed the laws of this club to such a huge extent it was as if he was part of a cult. That thought made her shudder. But, there was no way her husband could fall victim to brainwashing. Was there? After dinner, Alvin went up to his room and started to get himself ready. A few minutes later, Alvin came down the stairs. He was wearing his finest suit and a diamond ring, a heirloom from his father. His salt and pepper hair were was obviously swept to one side with a comb, possibly to cover a bald spot. As he walked past his wife, she though she smelt the scent of cologne emanating from Alvin. Alvin waved goodbye to his wife and walked out of the house and towards the car.

                      As Alvin drove, he turned on the radio to some kind of business radio station. He had recently bough a bit of stock from a company one of his fellow Falconers recommended to him. He let out a curse to himself when he heard stocks for the company were going down and he made a note to himself to sell his share when he got home. After a hour of driving, Alvin stopped at the parking lot of a plane white building. On the building was a sign that said " Falcon Lodge No 111." On the front door of the building was a Egyptian-style drawing of a Falcon. Alvin let out a sigh and walked into the lodge.

                      He was greeted with the sound of chatting men and the smell of cigar smoke. Following the sound of chatting, he eventually found himself in a large room with 20 men inside. Some were chatting with each other. Others were hanging at the bar and smoking cigars.
                      "Alvin, dear boy. Welcome!"

                      Alvin turned around and saw a old man wearing a smoking jacket and brown dress pants walking towards him with arms outstretched for a hug. Alvin let out a chuckle as he gave him a hug. This old man was Gareth Robinson, The Lodge Master. Gareth then said to Alvin with a raspy voice," We are deciding who gets a promotion tonight. The High Priest will be here any moment. Alvin let a gasp of surprise. The High Priest was coming here? Suddenly, everyone in the room fell silent when a new man came in. This new man was pale and had unblinking eyes. He was accompanied by a similar looking woman who looked somewhat younger than the priest. As the priest and his assistant walked to the podium they were accompanied by silence which was occasionally broken by a few lodge member muttering a blessing in Egyptian to the priest.

                      Once the priest made it to the podium, he grinned and began to speak.

                      "Brethren, it is by Set's will that you made it here tonight. So let's give him the praise he deserves." Alvin, along with the rest of the men in the room bowed their heads and recited a prayer in Egyptian. After the prayer, the priest than said to the men," Brethren, one of you has proven himself worthy of ascending to rank 3 of our organization and that person is, Brother Alvin Carter." Alvin stood there in shock, Was it true? Was he really found worthy? His shock was brought to a abrupt end when the men started to applaud and cheer. As Alvin walked up towards the priest he felt his heart beating with excitement and with a little bit of fear. He was wondering what kind of humiliation he would have to go through. Last time it was being beaten up by every one in the lodge. Alvin then bowed humbly to the priest and said," I thank you most high one." The priest nodded and said," This Brother will have to go through a rite of initiation to make it to rank 3. This rite is simple, he has to cut himself and drip the blood on this amulet." The priest than pulled a amulet and a knife out of his pocket and gave it to Alvin. Alvin then closed his eyes and grit his teeth as he started to cut his palm open. After a few moments, he felt blood oozing from the wound. He then gripped the coin in his cut hand tightly. After a few moments, he opened his hand and saw that the coin had a coat of blood on it. He than handed the knife and coin back to the priest. The priest than grinned at the blood-coated knife and licked the blood of the blade. A few moments later, the meeting was over. As Alvin walked back to his car he saw the Priest assistant smile at him. He saw two two fangs inside her mouth. Instead of being freaked out, Alvin just smiled back and climbed into his car. After all, she was a Servant of Set, like him and all of his brethren.

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                      • #12
                        Falcon is probably the wrong symbol for a group associated with Set, considered that it is the animal associated with Horus, the most hated enemy of Set. A Hippo would be a better symbol (a male hippo was one if the forms taken by Set during his battles with Horus). It is also an animal that Westerners seem to erroneously consider cute and harmless, so a man who is part of the Ancient and Honored Brethren of Hippopotami would probably just be considered to be a good old fellow rather than a member of an organization devoted to corruption and perversion.
                        Last edited by Aya Tari; 02-13-2017, 11:19 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                          Falcon is probably the wrong symbol for a group associated with Set, considered that it is the animal associated with Horus, the most hated enemy of Set. A Hippo would be a better symbol (a male hippo was one if the forms taken by Set during his battles with Horus). It is also an animal that Westerners seem to erroneously consider cute and harmless, so a man who is part of the Ancient and Honored Brethren of Hippopotami would probably just be considered to be a good old fellow rather than a member of an organization devoted to corruption and perversion.
                          Good point. But, does The Ancient and Honored Brethren of Hippopotami sound like a weird name to you?

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                          • #14
                            No more than any other secret society. It is your society, so you could call it the Honorable Society of Hippopotami or the Royal Order of Hippopotami if you want. To give it some legitimacy, have the society claim that it was founded by Alexander the Great after he conquered Egypt.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                              No more than any other secret society. It is your society, so you could call it the Honorable Society of Hippopotami or the Royal Order of Hippopotami if you want. To give it some legitimacy, have the society claim that it was founded by Alexander the Great after he conquered Egypt.
                              Good point with the name. The claim of being around ever since Alexander the Great could be a great myth. But, knowing the Setites, it could be true. Also, what do you think of the fiction ?

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