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Umbral Travel using Auspex and the Ash Path

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  • Umbral Travel using Auspex and the Ash Path

    1: Enter the Low Umbra using the Ash Path

    2: Use Astral Projection to travel around the Underworld (just stay clear of Oblivion, you'll thank me)

    3: Go "upwards" (up is a redundant term in the context of spirit worlds, but there is some scope for up being applied to moving from low to middle, middle to high)

    4: Reach the Middle Umbra?

    I'm genuinely curious what people think of this. Personally I think I'd present a Lunar Barrier, like that affecting Vampires who try to Astral Project out of the atmosphere. You can't just shift from Low to Middle Umbra using Auspex.

  • #2
    There is a number of problems with this. First of all, Astral Projection as written does not interact with Mage/Werewolf cosmology. Astral Projection says "If this cord is severed, her consciousness becomes stranded in the astral plane (the realm of ghosts, spirits, and shades).", but in Mage/Werewolf the realm of ghosts is Underworld and the realm of spirits is Middle Umbra and those two don't cross.

    Now, assuming that Astral Projection does work in the context of umbral cosmology, it still doesn't mean that using Astral Projection in the Lower Umbra will put your spirit into Lower Umbra instead of the Astral Space as it normally does.

    The next problem is that you can't just fly up out Underworld and get into Middle Umbra. They are not physically located on top of each other. If you could you'd think all the ghosts would leave already.
    Last edited by Kammerer; 02-16-2017, 07:26 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
      There is a number of problems with this. First of all, Astral Projection as written does not interact with Mage/Werewolf cosmology. Astral Projection says "If this cord is severed, her consciousness becomes stranded in the astral plane (the realm of ghosts, spirits, and shades).", but in Mage/Werewolf the realm of ghosts is Underworld and the realm of spirits is Middle Umbra and those two don't cross.
      Well, more than anything, this is related to a lack of clarity when it comes to describing the Umbra that Kindred can interact with. In the same way mages don't get Spheres, the Umbra is short of a small reworking. The only two ways you can really deal with the Umbra as a Kindred in V20 (that I'm aware of) are either Spirit Manipulation or Auspex 5. Baring that, a Kindred isn't typically going to care about the distinctions between Umbral realms. This is kind of evidenced later in the text as well. "Other beings with particular sensitivity to psychic activity, such as ghosts, werewolves, and even some magi, travel the astral plane as well," If we're talking Astral Reaches, I don't think ghosts or werewolves really mix into that. But clearly, for the sake of Auspex 5, you can deal with Mages, Werewolves, and Ghosts all in one area. It seems a minor concern if someone wants to define said areas more.

      Now, assuming that Astral Projection does work in the context of umbral cosmology, it still doesn't mean that using Astral Projection in the Lower Umbra will put your spirit into Lower Umbra instead of the Astral Space as it normally does.
      Which seems explicitly something the ST can allow.
      "Although an astrally projected character remains in the reflection of the mortal world, she may venture further into the spirit realms, especially if she becomes lost."
      The next problem is that you can't just fly up out Underworld and get into Middle Umbra. They are not physically located on top of each other. If you could you'd think all the ghosts would leave already.
      Not necessarily, but I do agree that this is probably the biggest bar against the idea. I'm not quite sure you can just keep flying up from the Underworld and arrive in the layer cake of the Umbral realms.

      But I'd probably allow someone to reach other realms with just Auspex 5 on Earth if they put enough effort into it. Which would probably require conversing with either a Werewolf or Mage to understand what's what. Then either have to deal with the various gauntlets or maybe make it easier if they had a place of power to use. Though, all this begs why they are bothering in the first place. Unless you have spirit manipulation anyway, I'm not sure what inherent use getting there would be. Even spirit manipulation's allowance of letting you get to it physically wouldn't let you get back. I'm not saying there is no reason for them to go there, just not sure it is worth the effort/risk.
      Last edited by Monalfie; 02-16-2017, 10:03 AM.

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