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Vampire Finance and Accountants

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  • #16
    Any Kindred of wealth and age is going to have connections within vampiric society, whether they be ghouls, clanmates, childer, etc. that keep their finances running smoothly. Any time a Kindred goes into torpor they risk waking up to find they've lost everything to wars, economic paradigm shifts, or just having their shit repo'd because people thought they were dead. The only way to stop that from happening is continuity, and continuity means a support network with trust and longevity. Lone wolves perish in the long game. This also means that no Kindred's wealth or influence is built on an island, meaning there are always ways of attacking it.

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    • #17
      In my head cannon for the Camarilla there is a guy who handles the IDs, legitimate finances and public mortal legalities of Kindred in exchange for a small cut. You can of course do these things on your own so long as you do not intrude on this vampire's domain without his permission but it's much easier to just go with the guy and have him fake your death every 70 years or so.

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      • #18
        I imagine that it is more like an entire domain of Kindred and their supporting ghouls, but I agree.

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        • #19
          No kindred of any meaningful wealth is going to have to personally worry about their finances, that's what ghouls are for.


          When one is accustomed to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

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          • #20
            I agree, though the same applies in essence to anyone with Resources 4 and 5 in a 20th game. Worrying about what to do with their money is what they pay accountants, lawyers, and politicians to do.

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            • #21
              You do also have mundane methods of handling these things. Fake identification can be bought and forged - this is harder in the modern era, but recent vampires likely still have mortal ID, and can then just update their accounts online. Records office employees can not just be mind-controlled and ghouled, but also blackmailed - Auspex, Animalism, and Obfuscate all aid in that.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
                Obfuscate isn't going to work if the entire place is locked up for the night. Rats very well might not have the capacity to do it since they are probably locked in huge metal filing cabinets.
                If you combine the two - Rat opens the door, and then you just walk over Obfuscated and open the filing cabinet - it shouldn't be that tricky.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                  I agree, though the same applies in essence to anyone with Resources 4 and 5 in a 20th game. Worrying about what to do with their money is what they pay accountants, lawyers, and politicians to do.
                  Totally. Regarding the OP question though, if the NPC vampires are well entrenched, then they very likely have a number of strategically placed ghouls who's job is to smooth over the difficulties of being a vampire in modern nights. These aren't personal servants and they aren't heads of departments, they're people picked because they have or can provide direct access to the records that vampires need manipulated. An entrenched group of vampires is very likely entrenched because of these ghouls and the information they can funnel up to their vampire overlords, because it allows them to spread their control without bloating the city's ghoul population. Blackmail is one form of this, but so is being able to manipulate meetings and schedules so that the proper people meet and can strike up 'natural' connections with each other that all lead back to the vampire pulling the strings. The "I'm a reclusive private citizen who shares your outlook and interests and who was introduced to you by a mutual fried" line can get you in the door and even really far, especially if you have some mind control to back it up.


                  When one is accustomed to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

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                  • #24
                    And Kindred with Intelligence 6+ and Bureaucracy 6+ can perceive organizational connections and organizational flaws that normal humans cannot even conceive.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                      And Kindred with Intelligence 6+ and Bureaucracy 6+ can perceive organizational connections and organizational flaws that normal humans cannot even conceive.
                      The gulf between someone with Att 2 + Skill 2 and someone with Att 5 + Skill 5 is far more pronounced than the gulf between someone with Att 5 + Skill 5 and Att6 + Skill 6. +2 dice is not statistically a game changer like you're implying. Someone with 10 dice for a task is in the top 1% of people skilled at that task already, throwing more dice at a problem is going to make them better, but not magically better


                      When one is accustomed to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                        And Kindred with Intelligence 6+ and Bureaucracy 6+ can perceive organizational connections and organizational flaws that normal humans cannot even conceive.
                        In theory maybe. In practice though, they are just rolling 12+ dice and are only going to do marginally better than a maxed out (10 dice) normal human rolling. That's just how the system works out.

                        Edit: TidyGamer beat me to it.


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                        • #27
                          And frankly, professional-grade contracts and organizations are not going to be built using solo actors rolling their Intelligence + Appropriate Skills, they're going to be built using teamwork rolls. Two professionals with 6 dice each working together to write a contract or look for a legal loophole are equally skilled as one elder vampire with 12 dice. in the same task, and the guy with three 4 dice assistants adding to his 6 dice pool blows the vampire out of the water.


                          When one is accustomed to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

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                          • #28
                            Well, I do not know if I agree. If we just added dice together for a team effort, three average high school physics teachers could out perform Einstein, since they would each be rolling 5 dice while Einstein is only rolling 10 dice. Quality should matter more than quantity. I prefer using teamwork rules where every successful assistant adds one dice to the leader, up to doubling the leader's dice pool.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Wolfgar View Post

                              If you combine the two - Rat opens the door, and then you just walk over Obfuscated and open the filing cabinet - it shouldn't be that tricky.
                              I freely admit I'm not very familiar with the capabilities of rats. But I honestly question one's ability to unlock or open a door by the handle. And you're still showing up on cameras despite Obfuscate. Honestly, at this point it'd be more easily served knowing how to pick a lock and hack the security, so just mortal means.

                              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                              Well, I do not know if I agree. If we just added dice together for a team effort, three average high school physics teachers could out perform Einstein, since they would each be rolling 5 dice while Einstein is only rolling 10 dice. Quality should matter more than quantity. I prefer using teamwork rules where every successful assistant adds one dice to the leader, up to doubling the leader's dice pool.
                              I have to question a business system beyond mortal comprehension when all the applicable laws and interactions are going to be done with mortals. Regardless, this is a system beef more than anything. Whether or not you like the use of teamwork, far as I see, a group would be able to unwind something an Elder could think up if given the time with added successes.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                                Well, I do not know if I agree. If we just added dice together for a team effort, three average high school physics teachers could out perform Einstein, since they would each be rolling 5 dice while Einstein is only rolling 10 dice. Quality should matter more than quantity. I prefer using teamwork rules where every successful assistant adds one dice to the leader, up to doubling the leader's dice pool.
                                Even with quality over quantity its still a matter of degrees. A vampire with Att 6 Abl 6 is obviously going to be in another league beyond human ken compared to someone with Att 3 Abl 3 (average professional level), Compared to someone with Att 5 Abl 5 though (a paragon, but an achievable human paragon) the gulf isn't that wide. They're better yes, but that extra increment doesn't immediately confer god-like agency upon them.

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