Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Do Potence successes do lethal damage in hand to hand?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Do Potence successes do lethal damage in hand to hand?

    As the title say, I'd like to know if Potence generated successes cause lethal damage (as opposed to bashing) in hand to hand?

    In V20 there is nothing about this under potence (not including elder powers) but I have heard several people say that potence generated successes cause lethal damage.

    Can anyone please offer clarification?

    Thanks in advance

  • #2
    I wouldn't think so. I'm not seeing anything that would indicate that off-hand. "System: Each dot that the vampire has in Potence adds one die to all Strength-related dice rolls. Further, the player can spend one blood point and change his Potence dice into an equal number of automatic successes to all Strength-related rolls for the turn. In melee and brawling combat, successes from Potence (either rolled or automatic) are applied to the damage roll results."

    Comment


    • #3
      No, they just modify existing damage types. If you want lethal damage, bring a knife.

      Comment


      • #4
        What you may be thinking of are the LARP rules. In Laws of the Night using Potence converts hand-to-hand damage from Bashing to Lethal. Its not part of the tabletop rules, but I frequently import it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
          What you may be thinking of are the LARP rules. In Laws of the Night using Potence converts hand-to-hand damage from Bashing to Lethal. Its not part of the tabletop rules, but I frequently import it.
          I think it's a nice rule. It definitely makes Potence 1 worth the 10 EXP... oh, for sheer hilarity, there was a Level 6 Potence power which only did two things. One, it allowed you to do damage to armour with your hands. Two, it made your hands do lethal. WHY ARE SO MANY OF THE LEVEL 6 POWERS TERRIBLE!?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

            I think it's a nice rule. It definitely makes Potence 1 worth the 10 EXP... oh, for sheer hilarity, there was a Level 6 Potence power which only did two things. One, it allowed you to do damage to armour with your hands. Two, it made your hands do lethal. WHY ARE SO MANY OF THE LEVEL 6 POWERS TERRIBLE!?
            On what justification, that vampires with Potence just innately hit that hard? Rounding up for the sake of simplicity and charity to your argument, a Strength 1, Potence 1 character does the same damage on average as a Strength 4, Potence 0, character (two levels). Without rounding up, it takes Strength 2, Potence 1, to do as much on average as Strength 4. The bare minimum to exceed the damage of a Strength 4 character, is Strength 1, Potence 2 (2.5 average damage); Strength 3, Potence 1 (2.5 average damage); or Strength 2, Potence 2 (3 average damage).

            Why should the Strength 1, Potence 1, character get to deal lethal when the Strength 4 character cannot? If the basis is raw force, the Strength 4 character is capable of hitting harder, and should therefore be able to deal lethal as well. Hell, a Strength 3 character should be, too; they deal equal damage, statistically-speaking, as a Strength 1, Potence 1, character.

            One dot of Potence is the equivalent of two Strength. It's a supernatural increase to a vampire's innate strength, that's all, at least until elder-levels come into play.

            No, it makes more sense to actually determine whether an attack is bashing or lethal based upon the RAW. Bashing is blunt trauma. It doesn't matter whether the character is slapped in the face, or hit by a bus. Lethal damage represents penetrating or major trauma; the latter of which is why bashing wraps around and upgrades in the case of mortals, to represent blunt force trauma sufficient to cause internal bleeding, and/or organ or bone damage. And, taking a punch from a vampire with Potence still only inflicts blunt trauma, even though it may do a metric fuckload of it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Theodrim Eh, sometimes you can overthink it. If you wanna get hyper-technical, Potence 1 and Strength 1 is different from Strength 2, since Potence's fluff has sometimes described it as quasi-psychokinetic. That means it doesn't 100% obey the laws of physics. Similar to how Celerity gives you no Momentum (actual super-speed would), Potence can allow you to do things which should crush your limbs under the weight.

              Comment


              • #8
                The difference between what constitutes Bashing damage and Lethal damage has always been arbitrary and not terribly granular. Its a mechanical abstraction to begin with and Potence is magic vampire voodoo.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
                  The difference between what constitutes Bashing damage and Lethal damage has always been arbitrary and not terribly granular. Its a mechanical abstraction to begin with and Potence is magic vampire voodoo.
                  I agree the divider is arbitrary (and I'm pretty sure the book explicitly says certain bashing can be lethal if aimed at certain organs). That said, just reasoning it as 'just magic so it upgrades' seems questionable to me. If that's how people want to handle it, seems fine. But RAW it doesn't look change.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Its exists outside of the core rules but still within official published Vampire mechanics. Import it if you like it, don't if you don't.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                      Theodrim Eh, sometimes you can overthink it. If you wanna get hyper-technical, Potence 1 and Strength 1 is different from Strength 2, since Potence's fluff has sometimes described it as quasi-psychokinetic. That means it doesn't 100% obey the laws of physics. Similar to how Celerity gives you no Momentum (actual super-speed would), Potence can allow you to do things which should crush your limbs under the weight.
                      In this case, the source of it is less important than its effect, particularly as reflected in the granularity of the system. The end result is the same: a Strength 1, Potence 1 vampire is as physically strong -- in the sense they can exert on average an equal amount of force -- as a Strength 3 vampire.

                      In fact, the peak ability of a Strength 3 vampire exceeds that of a Strength 1, Potence 1, vampire, despite the fact the minimal ability of a Strength 1, Potence 1, vampire exceeds the Strength 3 vampire. That is to say, a Strength 3 vampire can roll 0-3 successes (and can botch, when applicable), but a S1P1 vampire can roll 1-2 successes but cannot botch.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, only if you spend one blood point per turn (otherwise Potence is just extra Strength).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          From my own perspective I think the fact that Potence and Strength are two different stats which can be advanced independently of one another makes an argument for the idea that Potence is not merely representative of increased Strength.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I usually let bashing attacks caused by entities with a strength rating of 8 or higher cause lethal damage. Wether that is because they blood buffed strength to 8, have Strength 5 and Potence 3 or Strength 3 and Potence 5 doesn't matter. I don't do it because I think the supernatural help makes it lethal, but becauseblunt attack with that much force behind it tend to be very, well, lethal. Pure houserule of course.


                            My Mage 2e Homebrew

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Whatever works, but I generally require a weapon like a knife to deal lethal damage.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X