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VtR Elements in a VtM World: The Mashening

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  • VtR Elements in a VtM World: The Mashening

    Disclaimer: This is not meant to be a serious, usable fan-canon. This is simply a pet project and thought experiment for myself, trying to couple VtM lore and aspects of the VtR system. It does employ a few elements of VtR-specific lore, but all of this should be considered in the context of the VtM universe, with VtM clans and histories. I've drawn inspiration from some WoD and CoD sources such as the Vampire Translation Guide and Beckett's Jyhad Diary.

    So what do I like about VtR?

    1. No Gehenna. Or rather, the idea that if there is a Gehenna conspiracy, it's neither ubiquitous nor "true." It's just that: a conspiracy.

    I mean, it's still going to be very present in my project as one of the more major Kindred conspiracies, no question. Mostly because if you undermine Gehenna too much, you lose the Noddists...which means you lose Beckett.

    And I simply refuse to let that happen.

    2. Ambiguous origins. This already has potential in VtM, between Kindred political propoganda and memory-altering Disciplines, but for the most part it's accepted that there are definitely Kindred around who have been there since the beginning, they definitely remember exactly what happened if you can find them and ask, and it definitely matches up with the Book of Nod. In VtR, age comes with loss of memory, changing perceptions and perspectives based on the culture of the time and place, etc. etc. Not to mention some vampires who may try to just make stuff up for their own ends.

    3. Fluid power levels. None of this rigid seniority system VtM has going on, where being older/lower gen automatically grants Kindred more power no matter what. If you sit on a couch all day for a year, you should not be in better shape than someone who trained to run marathons. If you've spent the last 5,000 years napping in a coffin, you should not be more powerful than someone who spent the last century actively developing their abilities.

    This, however, isn't something I'll explore right now. I have something for it that even allows for thinbloods, but...maybe another time.

    4. Locality and diversity of culture. The VtM Global Ruling Vampire Council Conspiracy (Inner Circle) never made much sense to me. It's hard enough for us mere mortals to maintain the same culture when faced with geographical/political/social/economic barriers, at least for more than a few centuries, even with modern communications technologies. The only people who seem to have managed it are small police state nations, who more or less isolate themselves and their people from the global community.

    Kindred - who are secretive by necessity, who don't have the freedom as it is to casually trade information over a phone line or internet connection, and who face lots of problems trying to travel long distances - should have an even harder time keeping tabs on each other's domains, never mind sending elite black ops guards (archons) all the way across the ocean to get rid of any Prince who isn't following the "right rules." Or even to another country, honestly.


    So in a VtM/VtR world, what might the sects look like?
    The sects function as an overarching cultural lens rather than centralized power structures, just like how the world has Western cultures, Eastern cultures, etc. Kindred domains and regions where a given sect is dominant may share commonalities, histories, and stay connected more easily while still being very distinct from each other.

    Major Global Sects
    Camarilla: Dominant in Europe and North America
    Sabbat: Dominant in Europe and South America
    Carthians: Dominant in Western North America
    Ashirra: Dominant in the Middle East and North Africa
    Laibon: Dominant in Africa
    Circle of the Crone: Dominant in Russia and Eastern Europe
    Indian Subcontinent Kindred

    The Camarilla and Sabbat:
    The views these two sects have on vampirism were strongly influenced by the mortal cultures and religious revolutions of Europe over the past several centuries. Whatever the Kindred of Europe may have once thought about themselves, the majority now "believe" in a vampiric nature and origin story as understood through a Judeo-Christian lens. This cultural consciousness diffused amongst them and spread globally at the same time as their mortal counterparts. They are the only two sects who have been able to coexist (feuding is a form of coexisting, right?) in such heavily overlapped territories, perhaps for the same reason that the major religious schisms of Europe never succeeded in fully removing each other's influence.

    The Sabbat abides as strongly by the core principle of the Masquerade as does the Camarilla. They do not necessarily want to live openly. Kine are numerous; having them poking around in Kindred affairs would undermine Kindred sovereignty from their rules, and the Sabbat appreciates not only sovereignty, but dominion. Methods vary, but those Embraced into Sabbat cultures tend to form groups who embrace their own superiority. Some believe they were meant for greatness, while others believe they grasped it, earned it, and so can claim it rightfully. Some seek power through the ideals of nobility, elevating themselves above kine by natural right (Tzimisce ideals incarnated in the perspectives of Invictus). Some seek power through the strongest time-tested means of gathering followers: religious infiltration, encouraging kine to naturally accept their leadership (Lasombra ideals incarnated in the perspectives of Lancea et Sanctum, in a world where they never gave up trying to take over the Church).

    Within the Sabbat is a subculture that champions the Caine mythology and seeks to prepare the world for Gehenna. Depending on the group, this may mean taking control of the world's kine either to better serve their rising ancestors or to fight against them. Some believe in ridding the world of Kindred detractors who may challenge the authority of their ancestors, and some wish to recruit more Kindred to the cause. Some groups don't try to force their beliefs on other Kindred, "but that isn’t out of any kind of religious tolerance. The Sabbat knows that in an environment where everything is permitted, the Kindred will come around sooner or later" (Vampire Translation Guide 19). Other groups are not so passive, and if a Kindred is not with them, she is against them.

    The Sabbat get a makeover! In classic VtM, there's an awkward hypocrisy where the Sabbat supposedly wants to live openly and rule over kine, but then they maintain the Masquerade anyway because...? "Because shut up." I really wanted to find a patch for that plothole.

    What about the Camarilla? There's still an Inner Circle, which European domains use to connect and consolidate power to greater or lesser extents, but it functions less like a global conspiracy and more like a vampiric EU (Gangrexit, anyone?). As for the North American Camarilla, they relate to their European brethren much like how the British Commonwealth countries relate to England: sovereign in rule, but maintaining strong, historical "family" ties.


    Carthians and Free Anarchs:
    The Free Anarch state was a good experiment. Phenomenal, really, considering it's still kicking and twitching down there in Southern California. It was just never sustainable. Those who were attracted to it appreciated how secular it was, but they never quite managed to break free of the old order's hierarchies and rules.

    MacNeil's attempt at anarchy did succeed in inspiring one Critias, though, an elder Brujah with a vision of bringing Kindred society back to the culture of enlightenment it enjoyed in the ancient days of Carthage, long before the Inquisitions, long before the Camarilla and Anarch Revolt (Beckett's Jyhad Diary, "A Split City"). Well, Critias's own experiment continues in Milwaukee, anyway. Between him and Los Angeles, spreading east from the Pacific Coast, came a more moderate movement. Kindred in the Western US began focusing on their own domains and concerns. Each region, city, and town has its own problems, each has its own political agendas, and "there are better ways to approach such problems than by whispered prophecies and other such madness" (Vampire Translation Guide 20).

    Those who abide by a Camarilla sense of order desperately want to avoid losing ground in the United States. This holds especially true for those near the West Coast, who would become isolated from the Camarilla's traditional cross-continent and cross-Atlantic "old boys" network of support.


    Ashirra and Laibon:
    Not much to say about these. The way they're portrayed in VtM is already in line with my project pretty much perfectly, especially the Laibon. They have an overarching cultural background and cultural principles, but many differing domains and agendas within that.

    The Ashirra may seem like more of a Covenant than a Sect in VtR terms, but I believe it's a structure of many Covenant-type groups. The transcript for the chapter "The Madness of Jerusalem" in Beckett's Jyhad Diary mentions the Ashirra distinguishing themselves from each other depending on which region they operate in and what their goals are. Some care more about preserving a council of seven Salubri, some care more about rooting out and battling the Baali, and some try to prepare to kill the Antediluvians when they rise.

    The latter overlaps with my piece on the Sabbat, but unlike my version of the Gehenna conspirators, the Ashirra don't seek to dominate kine into serving them or fighting with/for them. The similarity of goals could foster cooperation between some Edenic Groundskeeper and Gehenna groups, while the difference of methods could foster animosity between others.


    The Circle of the Crone:
    When Baba Yaga's Shadow Curtain fell, rumors abounded that she'd commanded six whole armies to reign over her secluded empire (Beckett's Jyhad Diary, "The Hag"). Werewolves, spirits, wizards, and dragons - all at her beck and call.

    No one ever found any dragons. What they found were communities of Kindred who, isolated from both support when they needed help and punishment when they wanted to try new ideas, had flourished in creativity and changed greatly from their Western European cousins.

    Reports of Baba Yaga herself are...scattered. No one can seem to claim personal witness to her feats, and each community has a different stance on the Crone's presence and influence before the Curtain went down. Nevertheless, her name was always known and treated with great caution, enough to drive many of the smaller Kindred communities into the safety of the darkest, most remote areas and towns - places where the night's pitch blackness and silence takes root in the human mind, giving rise to introspection, superstition, and ritual. Perhaps it is more accurate to call these communities cults, who each share stories of "a goddess (the Crone) who was cast out from the other Gods and Goddesses for uncertain reasons" (Cited Page).

    Kindred who survived the Curtain learned to thrive in their harsh environments with the development of Cruàc, a form of Blood Magic that each cult knows in different forms and with different rituals. The discipline may have been nipped in the bud by the Tremere, to eliminate competition, or other Camarilla communities, for its volatile nature in stirring the Beast, had either influence been present, but they were not. As such, the discipline has grown and blossomed alongside various neo-pagan cultures.

    The fall of the Shadow Curtain brought outside Kindred sniffing back around Russia. Certain Sabbat factions see the pagan cultures there either as a disturbance to their influence on kine religious institutions or as threats to the very fabric of their Cainite beliefs. The Tremere more or less dragged their Camarilla allies into the disorderly land once they took notice of Cruàc. The cults of the Crone have steadily begun to form political connections in the face of these intrusions to their land and customs. Some help each other beat back their persecutors, while others sound the alarm to lie low and let Mother Russia's harsh inhospitality drive outsiders back to their warmer, softer climes. General Winter truly is the greatest ally.


    Indian Subcontinent Kindred:
    Like the Laibon and Ashirra, the given VtM lore for clans, bloodlines, and vampire cultures present in India already forms a great Sect structure.


    Major VtM Covenants
    Within a broader culture, there always appear smaller subculture movements and organizations. These groups share, to a greater or lesser extent, the same ideals and agendas, and they offer members unique resources and abilities.

    One organization may have been started when magical rituals went wrong, with sorcerers whose desire to understand the magical workings of the universe did not die with their transformations. Over time they gathered Kindred of all backgrounds with similarly curious mindsets, to better help each other understand their strange blood and develop its "magic," as understood through a sorcerer's sensibilities.

    There are the Gehenna conspirators. There are other organizations who follow their own conspiracies involving their own regional, historic gods and origin stories, one being particularly active in Egypt. There are Kindred who seek redemption for their monstrous natures, whether by suppressing the Beast, overcoming it, or learning how to use it to heal rather than hurt. There are Kindred organizations being created or put down, growing or withering, all the time, but these are the ones who have so far persisted against the odds:

    Ahrimanes: Mostly Gangrel and Caitiff, mostly female.
    Locations: North America, European coastlines.
    Sect: Independent, representing the last vestige of an older Scandinavian vampiric Sect. Now also incorporating Native American elements.

    Assamite: Invites all clans.
    Locations: Middle East and North Africa.
    Sect: Ashirra or Independent.
    Major Splinter Groups: Courtiers (Ashirra), Bedouin (North African Independent), Assamite antitribu (Sabbat).

    Children of Osiris: Invites all clans, mostly young Kindred.
    Locations: Egypt.
    Sect: Independent, representing an older Egyptian vampiric Sect.

    Followers of Set: Invites all clans.
    Locations: Egypt, everywhere.
    Sect: Independent, representing an older Egyptian vampiric Sect, in modern days incorporating Sabbat Gehenna conspiracy culture (or it is the other way around?).
    Major Splinter Groups: Daitya (India), Serpents of the Light (Caribbean), Walid Set (Middle East).

    Gehenna Conspiracy: Invites all clans.
    Locations: Mostly Europe and South America.
    Sect: Mostly Sabbat.

    Ordo Dracul: Invites all clans.
    Locations: Europe and North America, Russia, Asia.
    Sect: Mixed and Independent. The order tends to face persecution from both Camarilla and Sabbat. Some groups act in secret to avoid detection, though others may successfully incorporate themselves into communities without strong Tremere or Sabbat religious influences. Many have found greater welcome amongst the Circle of the Crone and in Asia, at least when they can avoid the Kuei Jin.

    Oder of Edenic Groundskeepers: Invites all clans. Very hush hush.
    Locations: Mostly Europe and the Middle East, everywhere.
    Sect: Mostly Ahirra, mixed. This order has an agenda that transcends cultural differences between the three main European and Middle Eastern Sects, though they tend to attract mostly Ashirra Kindred.

    Tremere: Invites all clans.
    Locations: Mostly Europe and North America.
    Sect: Strong proponents of Camarilla cultures.
    Splinter Groups: Tremere Antitribu (Sabbat).

    Tlacique: Invites all clans.
    Locations: Latin America.
    Sect: Mostly Independent, representing the last vestige of older Mesoamerican vampiric Sect. Some Sabbat. Believed by some to be a very old splinter group of the Followers of Set.
    Last edited by Chesh; 03-05-2017, 10:59 PM.



  • #2
    VtM/CoD2E Humanity Replacement - Vitality

    Major Source of Inspiration: WoD's Malkavian Dr. Netchurch
    Other Sources of Inspiration: CoD 2E Integrity system, CoD Werewolf 2E Harmony system, CoD VtR Blood Potency system

    This section is very unfinished because...well, I'm one gal doing this in my spare time for fun. Will try to update as I come up with more material. Input and ideas are welcome.

    Basic Explanation of my Madness
    In CoD Werewolf 2e, Harmony (their integrity/morality) is set as a balance rather than a straight scale of Integrity. The ideal balance is 5, and each side of that represents the werewolf's bias toward either their flesh half (6-10) or spirit half (4-0). I like this for VtM because, in canon, Malkavian Dr. Netchurch puts forth that vampires aren't exactly/entirely undead, but rather unliving...sometimes. Studying thinbloods, he finds evidence to suggest that vampires exist in stasis between death and life, and his experiments and studies yield evidence for both how vampiric bodies are fully functionally dead, but how they can sometimes be revitalized to life as well.

    By this interpretation, vampires are not just alien monsters. If they are in a kind of stasis, and certain living functions can be stimulated to work again, that means some part of them is still very much mortal and alive and therefore capable of understanding humanity and being part of the same world.


    Disclaimer: The following descriptions are directly lifted/adapted from Werewolf: The Forsaken, Second Edition, pages 104-105 on the matter of Harmony. Just because I'm too lazy not to plagiarize doesn't mean I'm too lazy to let you know I'm doing it.

    Vitality
    Every Kindred finds herself torn between two extremes. On one hand, she is the same person she was before; her mind, experiences, personality, and freedom of choice are preserved as much as her now ageless body. On the other hand, she is a creature of death, a predator consuming the physical essence of the living in order to sustain her own existence. These two extremes pull the Kindred in two directions. Vitality reflects her ability to balance these two sides of her identity.

    In game terms, Vitality is a trait that ranges from 0 to 10. Zero is a Kindred biased toward Death, driven by the impulses of her Beast and naturally attuned to the power of her blood. Ten is a Kindred biased toward Life, so close to the experience of life that her vampiric capacities are largely locked from her. The ideal balance point, between an affinity for undeathly power and an affinity for the world of the living, is five dots. All Kindred begin play with Vitality 7 - closer to balance than at the Embrace, but still mired in the world they left behind.

    Kindred suffer two kinds of breaking points: those that break towards Life and those that break towards Death. Willpower cannot modify the dice pool for these rolls. When a character hits a breaking point towards Death, he subtracts one die from the roll for each point of Vitality below 5. If the roll fails, he loses a point of Vitality. When he hits a breaking point towards Life, he gets a penalty for each point of Vitality above 5. If the roll fails, he gains a point of Vitality. This means the Kindred's Vitality can fluctuate wildly over the course of play.

    The breaking points below apply to all kindred. They're a starting point rather than a definitive list. The player and Storyteller should work together to define one or two breaking points in each direction for the character based on her clan, sect, and [insert trait here]. Breaking points toward Life involve actively denying her Beast and her undeathly nature. Breaking points toward Death instead require her to turn her back on the world of mortals which she came from.


    Breaking Points
    Toward Life
    - After a third time successfully resisting frenzy
    - After one month without expending vitae for anything other than waking up nightly
    -
    -
    -

    Vitality 3 or Lower
    - Expending vitae to stimulate Tricks of Life
    - Each loss of Blood Potency below level 7
    - Each consecutive time the Beast is denied its urge to frenzy after one successful resistance

    Vitality 0
    - Failing to indulge frenzy

    Toward Death
    - After a third frenzy
    - Killing kine through the use of vampiric abilities for reasons beyond survival and/or the protection of others (Note: What does your character consider a significant threat to herself? To her loved ones? To Kindred society?)
    -
    -
    -

    Vitality 8 or Higher
    - Each month the character goes without stimulating a Trick of Life
    - Killing a mortal through excessive/violent feeding
    - Each consecutive time the character fails to resist frenzy after one successful frenzy

    Vitality 10
    - Failing to resist frenzy


    Alpha notes for incoming mechanics/descriptions:
    Tricks of Life and Death: Become accessible at the given Vitality level, whether the character has purchased the Merit or not. Tricks of Life correspond to Vitality levels 6-10 and stack as Vitality rises. Tricks of Death correspond to Vitality levels 0-4 and stack as Vitality lowers.

    At Vitality 10, all Tricks of Death become inaccessible. If a character at Vitality 10 has purchased a Merit corresponding to a Trick of Death, it is considered locked until his Vitality lowers, at which point he may use it again. At Vitality 0, all Tricks of Life become inaccessible. If a character at Vitality 0 has purchased a Merit corresponding to a Trick of Life, it is considered locked until his Vitality rises, at which point he may use it again.

    Thinblood Merit/Flaw/Condition: Allows a character to start at Vitality 10 instead of 7. Adds free points/experience points at character creation?

    Thinblood: Description incoming. I don't think it'll change too much from the given thinblood condition. Life Bias in general should involve somewhat higher resistance to sunlight, and Death Bias higher vulnerability. Thinbloods should have even more resistance.

    Blood Potency: If you raise Blood Potency beyond the max possible for your Vitality, your Vitality automatically lowers. If you raise Vitality while at your max limit of Blood Potency, your Blood Potency automatically lowers.

    However, Blood Potency may be lowered without affecting Vitality. Gotta figure out how/why, of course.

    Discipline Levels 6+: Any that your character learned don't disappear entirely, but once he rises to Vit 5, they become inaccessible until he lowers his Vit, at which point he can use them again.

    Torpor: If a Kindred remains in torpor for the number of years necessary to reduce Blood Potency for her current level, roll [dice pool]. On a success, the Kindred awakens from torpor with one less Blood Potency point. On a failure, she loses the point and remains in torpor, either until the next dice check or until she is awakened by outside interference. Once a Kindred reaches the thinblood threshold, she may awaken automatically.

    Note: Torpor auto-reduces BP. Does it auto-raise Vitality? No...so how to incorporate.

    Life and Death Vitality Biases - Concepts of Preservation: Life Bias maintains and preserves memories - the mortal/spiritual aspect that's very much part of the world of mortals, but therefore more vulnerable to damage. Death Bias is more about maintaining and preserving the undead form - the supernatural aspect that continually defies physical death, but suffers loss of memories over time.

    A powerful (high BP - low Vit) Kindred raising Vitality back to a Life Bias can regain lost memories? At the very least, all memories from before Embrace, and maybe dice checks to regain patches of other memories from over the years?

    Wassail: What triggers it? Not breaking points, that's for sure, because Breaking Points only move Kindred along the scale of Life Bias and Death Bias in a constant balance. The drop into Wassail represents dropping off the scale entirely. It would have to do with the Beast taking over, total loss of the mortal aspect.

    Fury's Focus (Originally a Brujah Merit, totally stolen): Kindred with this ability have more fully integrated their awareness of Beast and Self. While unable to resist the call of the Beast any more than other Kindred, they can control the direction his frenzies take for a brief time. You must spend a Willpower point and roll your character's Self-Control at a difficulty one higher than the original difficulty to resist frenzy. For each success achieved, the character may control his actions for one turn.

    Face the Flames (also stolen): The weakness of your Beast renders your character less susceptible to blind panic when faced with fire. You receive two extra dice on Rötschreck rolls.

    Fountain of Unlife (cannibalized, not stolen...diablerized?): Your character is so attuned to her undead state that drawing on the power of her vitae has become second nature. All damage heals as though it is one level less (Note: This does not help your character against taking the damage to begin with). Unfortunately, other Kindred find your vitae twice as potent and nourishing as usual
    Last edited by Chesh; 03-09-2017, 01:20 AM.


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    • #3
      Interesting.

      I, personally, prefer Blood Potency over the Generation system, with no one really knowing just how or why vampirism started and greater power available without resorting to cannibalism.

      I also like using the Ordo Dracul and Lancea Sanctum (or Church of Night as I started calling it) in Masquerade.

      But then I also took inspiration from the first edition Exalted Abyssals book to retool Humanity into being as much about trying to act human as it is trying to be humane, so I am weird.


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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      • #4
        Thank you I totally agree about Blood Potency > Generation. But I wanted to leave the possibility open that kindred could still "believe in" Generation, from a cultural perspective, and try to toss it around to claim rank, etc. From a traditional Judeo-Christian perspective, the idea of being weaker/worse than the generation before you because you're further away from the Father makes sense.

        Technically, VtR does the best job of making Humanity an "act human" system with their Danse Macabre. They just do it in a way that makes it clear vampires can only parrot humanity without truly appreciating their own actions. For some people, that makes for a perfect horror-themed game, but not me. I like my clouds to have silver linings.

        This Vitality system is...tricky. It's not about a linear moral code, like VtM Humanity, but rather about how in-tune you are with your natural humanity versus your Beast. In a way, it's more like Wisdom from CoD Mage: The Awakening, where the problem isn't having power but rather how you choose to use it. For my system, it's a matter of whether you take the easy way out and empower your Beast by using your supernatural powers to solve your problems, or whether you strive to resolve them based on your own merits.

        All that said, I'm open to criticism and suggestions ^_^; Thinking up Breaking Points in particular is hard.


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        • #5
          I'm a little concerned that Vitality might be trying to mash too many different things together, but other than that it looks cool.

          Do the Clans-turned-Covenants get their old unique disciplines as an extra power, cruac-style?

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          • #6
            Yes, the Covenants do get their special Disciplines Cruac-style. There are very few Disciplines in VtM that are canonically exclusive to one clan anyway - even ones that are unusual to find outside a given clan can generally be learned if a Kindred is young enough/dedicated enough. For example, there are plenty of non-Tremere canon characters who are on record as knowing levels of Thaumaturgy.

            Mm. I'm not necessarily trying to make Vitality too many things, though I am probably explaining it too many different ways, in part to get a better sense of it for myself. I'll have to fix that when I give it its own description instead of a ripped-off one. Boiled down, Vitality is a balanced scale system between a Kindred's natural mortal aspect (Life) and supernatural Beast aspect (Death). The more deeply a Kindred connects to one side, the more tenuous their hold on the other side becomes, with consequences and benefits both ways, and the more difficult it is to avoid sliding back to the center. How's that as a nutshell?
            Last edited by Chesh; 03-11-2017, 01:48 PM.


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            • #7
              Yeah, it'll probably be ok. Depends how you intend to add the whole Blood Potency thing because it's not really built to bounce up and down a lot, being Requiem's version of Generation.

              Like, it's less static, but it's not that less static.
              Last edited by Elfive; 03-11-2017, 02:15 PM. Reason: typo

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              • #8
                Yeah, Blood Potency and Vitality levels are hard to compromise. I'll need to devote some time to looking at just the Blood Potency system to figure that out, but I don't want to overcomplicate things by completely overhauling it. For the moment, the only way it interacts with Vitality is that if Vitality rises too high, BP automatically falls. One important change I'm making is that BP does not automatically go up with age. That is getting tossed right out in favor of characters being able to raise BP for themselves. And lose BP for themselves.

                To help it with the changeability, I'm thinking of making it so that BP isn't "lost" with Vitality level so much as locked, like other things. Something like this:

                Chara reaches Vitality 4 (max 6 BP) and buys a 6th BP dot.
                Chara fails a Breaking Point and rises to Vitality 5. One dot of BP becomes locked (5 BP active).
                Chara falls into torpor, loses one BP upon waking, and does not purchase another one (4 BP active).
                Chara lowers Vitality to 4 again and regains the locked BP point (5 BP active).

                I'll have to add some more ways to truly lose BP points in this case.


                Comment


                • #9
                  If BP is locked based on maximums at a given level, then losing a dot from torpor shouldn't bring you down to 4 when the max is 5 when you already have a banked bp dot. That's going to wind up being way too much bookkeeping.

                  Effective BP just being equal to the lower of purchased BP or 10-Vitality is much simpler.

                  That said, this has the issue that it detracts from the notion that balanced Vitality is preferable. You're going to have to include some hefty drawbacks to counter the benefits of BP 6+.
                  Last edited by Elfive; 03-11-2017, 02:31 PM.

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