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Questions on a fight with a werewolf (in the Dark Ages)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Beckett View Post
    Just out of curiosity, did anyone ever find anything in the 20th Anniversary line about Ghouls, (or Mages, or Changlings, or Mummies, etc. . .) being immune to the Delirium? All I keep finding is that it affects humans.
    pg 378.
    Werewolves create an effect known as the De-lirium that is similar to a “forced Masquerade.” When non-supernatural creatures observe a Lupine in battle form or using a mystical power, they are very likely to flee, and then later to rationalize the event in their minds, no matter how far they have to reach to justify it. This can occasionally help a Kindred protect her own breaches of the Masquerade, though a Kindred in close proximity to a werewolf probably has other, more immediate concerns at hand.


    As long as they have vitae ghouls are supernatural critters, hence no delerium.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
      No, I would actually use Gnosis instead of Pure Breed as the replacement for Generation. I would calculate the effective Generation of Fera/Kinfolk as being equal to (15-Gnosis).
      If you're going down that road, you might as well use the Dharma equivalence from KotE (13 - Dharma). It's probably never going to come up, either way.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by rat_bastard View Post

        pg 378.


        As long as they have vitae ghouls are supernatural critters, hence no delerium.
        I would actually say ghouls are quasi supernatural beings and that the effect of the delirium would vary.

        If someone has a pint of vitae injected into them while they sleep and wakes up to see a werewolf, I'd argue they are NOT a supernatural being for the purpose of the delirium.

        A 75 year old ghoul who's been drinking vitae and getting deeply involved with vampire society for 50 years and who has no vitae in his system IS going to count as a supernatural being even though he has no vitae in him at the time (which means he is going to start getting old fast).

        Where exactly I would draw the line varies but the delirium has some variation as to how it effects a person based on their willpower so I'd use that as a tool.

        According to the table in werewolf, how a person responds to a werewolf in crinos form depends on their willpower, low willpower individuals run in terror while high willpower individuals can resist the fear caused by the delirium entirely.

        I'd make ghouls a little more resilient than normal people so while a ghoul might be scared of a werewolf he or she would be less likely to freak out and forget everything than a normal person.
        Last edited by Zennis; 03-14-2017, 02:13 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Zennis View Post

          I would actually say ghouls are quasi supernatural beings
          I was always under the impression that being a supernatural being was a binary. You either are or aren't.

          Originally posted by Zennis View Post

          If someone has a pint of vitae injected into them while they sleep and wakes up to see a werewolf, I'd argue they are NOT a supernatural being for the purpose of the delirium.
          Let's spin it out, though. Suppose we had a vampire sneak into someone's room while they slept, drained their blood, and Embraced them, using Obscure Discipline 4 to keep them asleep for the process. THEN they wake up and see a werewolf standing over them. They're fully Kindred at that point....do they get a Delirium whammy?

          How about a 6-year-old girl who breaks the Chrysalis and turns into a Boggan and then encounters the werewolf. She has a whopping 6 years worth of human memories and has just tried to figure out why her bedroom looks like a workshop instead of the pink princess thing her dad put in, and boom. Three-meter tall murderwolf. Are we talking Delerium?
          Last edited by BenjCano; 03-14-2017, 11:00 AM.


          I seem to have acquired a site for running play by post games. This is unexpected and frightening and come watch either the glorious play or the magnificent train wreck:

          The Malkavian Madness Network

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BenjCano View Post
            I was always under the impression that being a supernatural being was a binary. You either are or aren't.
            For things like Sorcerers and Psychics, it's always been a little more complicated/grey. But Ghouls have always been immune to Delirium to my recollection.

            Originally posted by BenjCano View Post
            Let's spin it out, though. Suppose we had a vampire sneak into someone's room while they slept, drained their blood, and Embraced them, using Obscure Discipline 4 to keep them asleep for the process. THEN they wake up and see a werewolf standing over them. They're fully Kindred at that point....do they get a Delirium whammy?
            We know this isn't the case. They're fully Supernatural and so they don't suffer Delirium effects. But it's worth saying that just because something isn't forced to run scared because of Delirium doesn't mean it doesn't react the exact same way and run scared (possibly almost mindlessly) because of the sight of an angry Crinos.

            Originally posted by BenjCano View Post
            How about a 6-year-old girl who breaks the Chrysalis and turns into a Boggan and then encounters the werewolf. She has a whopping 6 years worth of human memories and has just tried to figure out why her bedroom looks like a workshop instead of the pink princess thing her dad put in, and boom. Three-meter tall murderwolf. Are we talking Delerium?
            Same as above, except that she might not even know if the Werewolf is "real" or not. And again, running scared or collapsing into a quivering wreck is a distinct possibility. She just won't get the mercy(?) or not remembering it later.


            So my take on the encounter as presented is that the Ghoul didn't suffer Delirium (since they're supposed to be immune) so much as he went running away scared (a completely understandable reaction). And after a round or 2, his Blood Bond overcame his fear and forced him to go back for his Domitor. The situation playing out that way makes a lot more sense to me. Same effect overall, but different reasons for actions in play.


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            • #36
              Any rational entity will run from a Garou in Crinos form, regardless of their immunity, because you do not have to outrun the Garou to avoid death, you only have to outrun the slowest member of your group to avoid death. While Garou will not spare Ghouls, they will not be terribly interested in them if there are Kindred that they can eat. I always like the looks of horror on my Kindred players when they see a Homid Garou eat a Kindred when the Homid Garou is experiencing the Thrall of the Wyrm.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BenjCano View Post
                I was always under the impression that being a supernatural being was a binary. You either are or aren't.
                It's an odd term all things considered. What makes someone "supernatural"?

                Originally posted by BenjCano View Post
                Let's spin it out, though. Suppose we had a vampire sneak into someone's room while they slept, drained their blood, and Embraced them, using Obscure Discipline 4 to keep them asleep for the process. THEN they wake up and see a werewolf standing over them. They're fully Kindred at that point....do they get a Delirium whammy?

                How about a 6-year-old girl who breaks the Chrysalis and turns into a Boggan and then encounters the werewolf. She has a whopping 6 years worth of human memories and has just tried to figure out why her bedroom looks like a workshop instead of the pink princess thing her dad put in, and boom. Three-meter tall murderwolf. Are we talking Delerium?
                Something to keep in mind is that the above quote comes from the V20 (Lupines), and not the W20 (Garou and Delirium) game line. Because the example is talking about a "lupine" in a Dark Ages V20 game, that's fine. But, in a general sense, there is not, as far as I can tell, in the 20th Anniversary Edition, any special cases made for "supernaturals" being immune to the Veil, and from a W20 perspective, it doesn't actually make any sense for such exceptions. The Delirium is a deep seeded reaction to thousands of years of atrocities the Garou have wrought on humanity. It even points out many times the Kinfolk are only immune because they have Wolf-Blood, not because they are themselves "supernatural". The examples given on individuals that might receive a bonus, not immunity, but a bonus, are those that did not suffer as much, or for as long as other, such as Native American's
                Last edited by Beckett; 03-14-2017, 08:06 PM.


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                • #38
                  Originally posted by rat_bastard View Post

                  pg 378.


                  As long as they have vitae ghouls are supernatural critters, hence no delerium.
                  Thanks. I guess I should have been more specific in asking if it actually showed up anywhere in W20, but still, I had not considered looking into other game lines for it. Opening it's own box of worms, ha ha.


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