Issue: Nameless flaw

[artuard]

Hey Guys,

So one my pc's took this flaw : Nameless for 5 points. It's page 425 from the v20 dark ages, social flaw. And I have to say, I'm struggling to understand this one with english not being my first language. Is it a supernatural curse? Why would someone they have just met forget about them tomorrow? Would it be a dark aspect of 'arcane' from mage? What the hell is this?

[Kammerer]

That... looks an awful lot like Arcane background... but it's a flaw? Wat?

[artuard]

That's the thing, I don't understand it! Here is the flaw RAW :

Nameless (5 points): You do not exist. Certainly, you still walk the earth and your friends and kin can still see and touch you, but all records of your existence have been destroyed. Not even your vampiric progeny can lay claim to your name. As far as anyone can prove, you never were. If you take this Flaw, you may not take any Social Merits that grant benefits based on reputation. At Storyteller’s discretion, you may also be barred from taking Backgrounds that require a social presence. Who or what have you made so angry that they have erased your existence from the face of this earth?

So what's the story?

( If I can't link direct fragments from the core book please PM so i can delete immediately )

[Monalfie]

Is there a flaw type listing it is under? As in, there is a category for Social and Supernatural? That would help clarify for me. Read as written, it sounds more like a mundane social thing that all traces of your prior existence are gone for some reason. But if it is listed under Supernatural explicitly, then it sounds like something magical is interfering with your ability to make a lasting mark/have history.

[artuard]

Is there a flaw type listing it is under? As in, there is a category for Social and Supernatural? That would help clarify for me. Read as written, it sounds more like a mundane social thing that all traces of your prior existence are gone for some reason. But if it is listed under Supernatural explicitly, then it sounds like something magical is interfering with your ability to make a lasting mark/have history.

it is under social bracket. Would you be able to explain how does one erase all existing information about someone in those times? How would your children not remember you? I don't really get it :-/

[Baaldam]

it is under social bracket. Would you be able to explain how does one erase all existing information about someone in those times? How would your children not remember you? I don't really get it :-/

Someone with Dominate 3+ really dislikes you or enjoys messing with your past life?

More importantly, what exactly does your player have in mind with getting this flaw - beside scoring 5 points to spend in other stuff, that is?

[artuard]

Someone with Dominate 3+ really dislikes you or enjoys messing with your past life?

More importantly, what exactly does your player have in mind with getting this flaw - beside scoring 5 points to spend in other stuff, that is?

That's the thing - he figures it's some shady people erasing him from the will of his father as a noble - easy way to get said 5 points as he plays a wild gangrel who cares little for such things anyway..

[Monalfie]

it is under social bracket. Would you be able to explain how does one erase all existing information about someone in those times? How would your children not remember you? I don't really get it :-/

The how is entirely up to the player and ST to work out. But there are plenty of ways, especially in the dark ages. You have to start out with the premise that either you don't have those sort of ties or they have been removed someone.

Concept one: You were born and raised in a small German village that rarely had any travellers come through. You left and were embraced on the road. Your sire has since met Final Death and the village was wiped out by a flood.
So this is essentially where there is no information of you out there.

Concept two: You enraged a spiteful elder who made it their mission to erase your history. They've since either killed or dominated anyone who once knew you. And made an effort to destroy all paperwork proving your existence.
So here you could have connections that are now merely gone. The how can be numerous ways. But yeah, the reason could be mundane or supernatural.

[artuard]

Ok that clears things for me - for some reason I've read that this translates into future as well - as in you can't make a name for yourself and will always be nameless :-/ Dunno how I got there - thanks for your help Monalfie

[Kendaan]

Ok that clears things for me - for some reason I've read that this translates into future as well - as in you can't make a name for yourself and will always be nameless :-/ Dunno how I got there

The last part does imply that soemone or something is responsible. Check what you get for Enemy or Rivalry at 5pt, I would use this as a guideline, with the DIfference that the thing behind all is not trying to go at him the direct way.

For a wild Gangrel some options could be:
-Faes
-Spirits of the Wilds
-Gypsies
-Ravnos
-Lhiannan

But honnestly this flaw would be more interesting for a member of the High Clans &/or for a campaign going through the ages

[Baaldam]

That's the thing - he figures it's some shady people erasing him from the will of his father as a noble - easy way to get said 5 points as he plays a wild gangrel who cares little for such things anyway..

Personally, does the idea interests you? Because if it feels like a headache to make work in your game and the PC is not really invested in the complication, it's perfectly valid for you to veto either the 5pt version or the flaw as a whole. He wants those 5pts? Make him explain how the flaw is actually that much of a deal/trouble for the character. Otherwise, make him pick others and close the issue.

[Lian]

Personally, does the idea interests you? Because if it feels like a headache to make work in your game and the PC is not really invested in the complication, it's perfectly valid for you to veto either the 5pt version or the flaw as a whole. He wants those 5pts? Make him explain how the flaw is actually that much of a deal/trouble for the character. Otherwise, make him pick others and close the issue.

This: Flaws are a bribe to the player to make your job easier by building up plot for you. If you can't use this for your story and its only causing problems make him do 5 points of work.

[Telgar]

Never give Flaw points for free. If the flaw doesn't affect his character, he can't take it.

[Lian]

Never give Flaw points for free. If the flaw doesn't affect his character, he can't take it.

Or just give everyone 7 free points and don't make them minimax if you think they need more points.

[Nosimplehiway]

Another possible explanation would be a period of torpor. If the PC was embraced, the sire was destroyed and then the PC entered torpor for a century, who would recognize him now? The weird part is that people *do* recognize you, as in "friends and kin". In the DA era that was pretty much the only ID anyone had anyway - personal testimony. I suppose there might be a baptismal record, but even that requires members of your parish to attest that the name goes with the face.

I vaguely recall a one or two point flaw like this from an early edition of Mage, in which you had no paper-trail, no ID, etc. It was sometimes helpful if you were being tracked, but in the modern day was a real headache. No credit cards. No rental cars. No ID. No airline flights. This was distinct from Arcane in that it could not be turned on and off, and could be slowly lost as you started showing up in databases from the PC's activities.

IMHO, the DA version was probably the result of a brainstorming session or first draft that never got re-edited. Page XX, anyone?

If I were STing, I would just disallow it. If the player wants to say his PC is completely unknown at start of the chronicle, fine. Just don't buy any Status, Resources, etc.