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Bring me your broken starting characters (V20 Material Only) (Just for fun)

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  • Bring me your broken starting characters (V20 Material Only) (Just for fun)

    Using the standard character generation rules of V20, and material from V20 books only (V20 Core, Ghouls and Revenants, Rites of Blood, Lore of the Clans/Bloodlines etc.) bring me exceptionally powerful starting characters for the sake of debate and discussion. "Power" is up for each poster to define as it is a subjective concept. How do you compare "can kill 2 other starting characters in one turn with no prep" to "is one of the Harpies and has spies everywhere" after all? How do you compare ancient mystical knowledge to an 8 figure net worth?

    Merits/Flaws are allowed, but only 7 points can be gained from flaws. 15 Freebie Points. 3 points in Disciplines (standard Camarilla) and 7 in Virtues. All Optional Systems are in place, so starting on a Path or with some obscure power is okay, but Backgrounds need to be taken to match that (typically Mentor).

    There is no shame here. Imagine you have the most permissive ST in the world, and just let loose with the most crunch-abusing starting concept you can imagine.

  • #2
    New Age Extraordinaire

    Clan: Caitiff (Toreador Sire)

    Sect: Anarch

    http://imgur.com/a/F9TUB

    Definition of "Power": Teleporting sneak-attack biting Caitiff of death. Great for combat, escape, ambushing. Not terrible at other things.

    As a general tactic, teleport somewhere no one would expect you, enter Obfuscate while in this unexpected area, boost your Wits using Focused Mind to increase your Obfuscate range, prepare a Grab and Bite maneuver. Brawl is specialized into Grabs and Bites. Low Strength (I was tempted to leave them with Stamina 1, but Strength is something you can pump in response to something, Stamina will be stuck at its current level when you take your first hit in a fight, potentially) means you need to blood pump for good impact, but the upshot is that you'll be getting that blood back. When Focused Mind hits higher levels you'll be able to take two Thaumaturgy actions each turn, reduce all difficulties by 2... When you get New Age to level 5, you can start sacrificing humans for EXP if you're really power-hungry, and the EXP you gain can be immediately invested without training times.

    If you're really keen on riding the Power Gaming train, remove 1 dot of Mentor and 1 dot of Brawl and get the Hidden Diablerie merit. Since this character is speced into "sneak attack, grab and bite", it's perfect for Diablerie if that's what you're into. It will also help since that New Age ritual gives you Diablerie lines.
    Last edited by 11twiggins; 03-18-2017, 12:31 PM.

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    • #3
      In V20 DA if you create your Nagaraja with 8+ Willpower you can can just automatically succeed on the Willpower roll to not eat flesh when you feed. Add in Serpentis 2 and you no longer have to bite to feed. Now your clan weakness essentially reads "Your bite deals +2 damage".

      Then instead of taking the traditional Nagaraja Necromantic paths come up with a backstory reason to take The Path of the Twilight Garden.
      Why? Well primarily to double your bite damage. Being a Nagaraja with Typhonic Maw and Kiss of the Dark Mother your bite damage is: 2x Strength + 4 (1 (base) + 2 (Nagaraja) + 1 (Maw)).
      Later down the line when you get Serpentis 4 that damage increases by 8 (double +2 strength +2 bite damage).

      Add in the Berserker merit and if you don't one shot enemies you hit your GM is railroading you.


      But the synergies between Serpentis and Twilight Garden do not end there. Twilight Garden 3's Melancholy humor makes the target be unable to spend Willpower (no roll to resist) and Enchanting Gaze paralyses if they spend Willpower and roll to resist but they cannot spend Willpower so they are just paralyzed.


      This is all possible as a starting character but I would rather wait a few sessions to buy Serpentis 2 rather than spend Freebie points.
      Last edited by Fadier; 03-18-2017, 06:56 PM.

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      • #4
        Fadier Resisting the need to eat flesh doesn't mean that you don't need it. Every night you go without flesh will reduce your dice pool by 1, correct? Apart from that, great!

        Oh, and remember that the Nagaraja weakness converts 1 human from 10 blood points into 20 blood points, so it isn't terrible really. Just get the Preserve Corpse ritual.

        The issue here is that you need to Grapple before you can bite, unless you use Serpentis 2 or 4. This means you need to go FULL MONSTER to actually get in your only viable attack... so maybe jig things around so you have some other attack option?

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        • #5
          11twiggins I'm talking about the V20 DA Nagaraja, the weakness is similar but different. This character won't work in the modern day V20 system, to bite with out grappling you need Serpentis 4 in V20 but in V20 DA you only need Serpentis 2. Also Twilight Garden 3 has a resistance roll in V20 (so not an automatic paralyze).

          So you spend 1 BP to activate Serpentis 2 (now you can bite without a grapple and +1 damage), 1 BP for Twilight Garden 2 to double your bite damage and any other into buffing your Dexterity so you can hit and instagib your opponent.


          The DA Nagaraja must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 8) when feeding to not consume a 'murderous amount' of flesh, their bites might cause infection and they have +2 damage to bite. They do not gain sustenance from flesh as V20 Nagaraja do.

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          • #6
            8th gen (7th if DA) Ventrue with Extra Clan Discipline: Serpentis for me, with the Piercing Gaze merit (optionally, Enchanting Voice). Start with Dominate 2, Presence 1, Serpentis 1. From there, get Serpentis and Presence 2 with your first ten XP, then Dominate 3 with your second ten. Dominate someone into teaching you Auspex and make them forget they did it, barter for it, and/or buy Auspex 1 with your third ten XP.

            Depending upon chronicle and ST (most aren't like to throw anything serious against you until you've packed on some XP), around the time you've hit 30 XP you've made a character that basically can't be attacked in close range, isn't like to be ambushed, can dominate people at-will especially using Eyes of the Serpent as a supplemental power, and if push comes to shove deal aggravated.

            Of course, there's also this: combat-focused Tremere, starting with Focused Mind 4, and ECD (Celerity). Make sure you get Burning Blade as part of your starting rituals. After a few points of experience you can start to raise Movement of the Mind and Celerity, and BLAM! vampire Jedi.
            Last edited by Theodrim; 03-19-2017, 10:49 AM.

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            • #7
              A Maeghar embraced by a Telyavelic Tremere
              -Necromancy in clan
              -Sielanic Thaumaturgy in Clan (so access to Koldunic sorcery too, though the price is quite steep if you take more than one path of Koldunic)
              -Choice of either Auspex or Presence as third

              Spend backgrounds & Merits to have access to way to improve your blood magics & learn new rituals, generation 8 would be helpful too, to fuel the Magic.

              High Intelligence, manipulation, Occult & Medecine should cover most of your rolls.

              Though honnestly, authorising 2 blood magics in clan would be a little crazy...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kendaan View Post
                A Maeghar embraced by a Telyavelic Tremere
                -Necromancy in clan
                -Sielanic Thaumaturgy in Clan (so access to Koldunic sorcery too, though the price is quite steep if you take more than one path of Koldunic)
                -Choice of either Auspex or Presence as third

                Spend backgrounds & Merits to have access to way to improve your blood magics & learn new rituals, generation 8 would be helpful too, to fuel the Magic.

                High Intelligence, manipulation, Occult & Medecine should cover most of your rolls.

                Though honnestly, authorising 2 blood magics in clan would be a little crazy...
                No need. In Rites of Blood you don't need to have Thaumaturgy and Necromancy, you can study them effectively by branching out from your original school, and we're going for uber-cheese, so your Maeghar can effectively just add Necro to his Thaum and keep the third Discipline of the Telyavelic.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                  No need. In Rites of Blood you don't need to have Thaumaturgy and Necromancy, you can study them effectively by branching out from your original school, and we're going for uber-cheese, so your Maeghar can effectively just add Necro to his Thaum and keep the third Discipline of the Telyavelic.
                  From what I can find in Rites of blood, it's only Rituals that can be used cross disciplines, with a malus to the ritual level, and if appropriate thematically.

                  The only one who clearly goes cross disciplines i the Syelavic thaumartugy with Koldun & the path of the Shadow World with NEcromancy.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                    8th gen (7th if DA) Ventrue with Extra Clan Discipline: Serpentis for me, with the Piercing Gaze merit (optionally, Enchanting Voice). Start with Dominate 2, Presence 1, Serpentis 1. From there, get Serpentis and Presence 2 with your first ten XP, then Dominate 3 with your second ten. Dominate someone into teaching you Auspex and make them forget they did it, barter for it, and/or buy Auspex 1 with your third ten XP.

                    Depending upon chronicle and ST (most aren't like to throw anything serious against you until you've packed on some XP), around the time you've hit 30 XP you've made a character that basically can't be attacked in close range, isn't like to be ambushed, can dominate people at-will especially using Eyes of the Serpent as a supplemental power, and if push comes to shove deal aggravated.

                    Of course, there's also this: combat-focused Tremere, starting with Focused Mind 4, and ECD (Celerity). Make sure you get Burning Blade as part of your starting rituals. After a few points of experience you can start to raise Movement of the Mind and Celerity, and BLAM! vampire Jedi.
                    Serpentis 1 isn't that crazy in DAV20. It makes them trapped by your gaze and drops social difficulties by 1, but Supernaturals can roll their Willpower against a difficulty of your Charisma + Subterfuge... which will allow them to escape quite frequently. Considering the merits you're buying here, it's unlikely that the difficulty will be 10 and so it's likely they'll escape the gaze and you'll be in serious trouble. I'd be interested in seeing a sheet for this concept.

                    As for Vampire Jedi, Focused Mind is rare among Tremere. It was discovered during WWll by a Tremere in Germancy IIRC, so that's blocking it off for the vast majority of Vampire history, and it's a rare Path. My personal reasoning is that the Path means you will dominate in Certamen; no one can beat you if you're using it. Therefore it will be a closely guarded power which is jealously hoarded by those in the higher ranking positions. Part of the reason I love New Age Thaumaturgy so much (as well as the aesthetic and the concepts behind it) is that the Paths are so beautiful. Movement, Blood, Lure, Focused Mind, Mercury, a few other Paths no one will pick... I don't really think Tremere necessarily get the best options.

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                    • #11
                      Something I forgot to ask; how do STs feel about Path of Mercury? I feel that a power which trumps all forms of escapology and is superior at level 2 to Obtenebration 6 is... potent. I wouldn't call Mercury "broken", but I think that it's a real trump card. Beaten? Totally defeated? Well, now you're 500 miles away. Combined with Temporis it would be the most horrifically dangerous thing ever. Oh geez... I'm going to have to write that at some point. A True Brujah Sadhana practitioner. Focused Mind boosts your Wits to dangerously high levels, use the Wits-based roll for Temporis 5 to give yourself extra actions, teleport in (action 1), attack (actions 2-(n-1)), teleport out (action n).

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                        Serpentis 1 isn't that crazy in DAV20. It makes them trapped by your gaze and drops social difficulties by 1, but Supernaturals can roll their Willpower against a difficulty of your Charisma + Subterfuge... which will allow them to escape quite frequently. Considering the merits you're buying here, it's unlikely that the difficulty will be 10 and so it's likely they'll escape the gaze and you'll be in serious trouble. I'd be interested in seeing a sheet for this concept.
                        I was pointing out DAC, because of Dominate's reliance upon generation and the ability to go to 7th gen in the setting. Beyond that, don't forget not every supernatural, everywhere, has a Willpower of 8+; outside PC's and elders, Willpowers of 4-7 are (should be) much more common; likewise, a difficulty of Charisma + Subterfuge with this character is more likely to be somewhere between 6-8, which under DAV rules will allow them to escape with reasonable frequency, but Eyes of the Serpent is better used as a fallback or against mortals all the same. The chief power of a vampire so-made will be their ability to defend themselves through retainers and military force, rather than personal might; it's still a Ventrue, after all.

                        As for Vampire Jedi, Focused Mind is rare among Tremere. It was discovered during WWll by a Tremere in Germancy IIRC, so that's blocking it off for the vast majority of Vampire history, and it's a rare Path. My personal reasoning is that the Path means you will dominate in Certamen; no one can beat you if you're using it. Therefore it will be a closely guarded power which is jealously hoarded by those in the higher ranking positions. Part of the reason I love New Age Thaumaturgy so much (as well as the aesthetic and the concepts behind it) is that the Paths are so beautiful. Movement, Blood, Lure, Focused Mind, Mercury, a few other Paths no one will pick... I don't really think Tremere necessarily get the best options.
                        Well, you did say no rules.

                        That said, Focused Mind is older than WWII. If I remember right, it's been around in its Thaumaturgical iteration since at least the Renaissance, and there's zero reason whatsoever for it to not be older. The Tremere were a Hermetic House before they were vampires, and looking at older-edition DAV Thaumaturgy the influence is shown strongest: the Thaumaturgical paths are renamed to their AM system equivalents; see, Lure of the Flames being renamed Creo Ignem. There's an entire Form which Focused Mind would classify, Mentem, and two Techniques, Intellego and Muto. Hell, the "original" Spirit Thaumaturgy path was Rego Mentem (AM "Mind" was also Spirit).

                        By all rights, Focused Mind (Muto Mentem) would have been one of the first Thaumaturgical paths the Tremere adapted, least of all for its sheer power and ability to mitigate or overcome the worst mental aspects of being a Cainite: the Beast. It's one of the few metapoint plots relevant to the Tremere I straight-up override when running DAV. That said, it is as you said exceedingly rare among Tremere.

                        But, making a Tremere with ECD Celerity to make a Vampire Jedi, makes a world more sense than a Toreador with ECD Thaumaturgy.

                        Now, on the other hand, for a Tal'mahe'Ra game I ran years ago, I did have a Brujah NPC with Clan Enmity (Tremere), who had Focused Mind and Thaumaturgical Countermagic. That NPC was a goddamned holy terror.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

                          I was pointing out DAC, because of Dominate's reliance upon generation and the ability to go to 7th gen in the setting. Beyond that, don't forget not every supernatural, everywhere, has a Willpower of 8+; outside PC's and elders, Willpowers of 4-7 are (should be) much more common; likewise, a difficulty of Charisma + Subterfuge with this character is more likely to be somewhere between 6-8, which under DAV rules will allow them to escape with reasonable frequency, but Eyes of the Serpent is better used as a fallback or against mortals all the same. The chief power of a vampire so-made will be their ability to defend themselves through retainers and military force, rather than personal might; it's still a Ventrue, after all.



                          Well, you did say no rules.

                          That said, Focused Mind is older than WWII. If I remember right, it's been around in its Thaumaturgical iteration since at least the Renaissance, and there's zero reason whatsoever for it to not be older. The Tremere were a Hermetic House before they were vampires, and looking at older-edition DAV Thaumaturgy the influence is shown strongest: the Thaumaturgical paths are renamed to their AM system equivalents; see, Lure of the Flames being renamed Creo Ignem. There's an entire Form which Focused Mind would classify, Mentem, and two Techniques, Intellego and Muto. Hell, the "original" Spirit Thaumaturgy path was Rego Mentem (AM "Mind" was also Spirit).

                          By all rights, Focused Mind (Muto Mentem) would have been one of the first Thaumaturgical paths the Tremere adapted, least of all for its sheer power and ability to mitigate or overcome the worst mental aspects of being a Cainite: the Beast. It's one of the few metapoint plots relevant to the Tremere I straight-up override when running DAV. That said, it is as you said exceedingly rare among Tremere.

                          But, making a Tremere with ECD Celerity to make a Vampire Jedi, makes a world more sense than a Toreador with ECD Thaumaturgy.

                          Now, on the other hand, for a Tal'mahe'Ra game I ran years ago, I did have a Brujah NPC with Clan Enmity (Tremere), who had Focused Mind and Thaumaturgical Countermagic. That NPC was a goddamned holy terror.
                          That's all fair.

                          And it should have been one of the first Paths, you're correct, but as far as I could find the most recent write-up (correct me if I'm wrong) has it being made (or rediscovered?) in Germany in WWll.

                          And the Celerity combat Jedi would be cool. Dexterity + Thaumaturgy attacks with the burning sword from afar. Awesome.

                          Argh. No. Stawp. For added horror, make them an Abomination and watch the fireworks.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                            Argh. No. Stawp. For added horror, make them an Abomination and watch the fireworks.
                            Ugh, abominations. Fuck that.

                            Actually, the Brujah made sense in context. He was a Decembrist, and as of the game's year (2000) an old ancilla. He got hold of a couple chantries' worth of texts and research material after the Russian Revolution, and dedicated himself to learning Thaumaturgy as a way to control his Beast. During the USSR's time he made a bit of a name for himself as a Tremere hunter, accruing more knowledge for himself and learning more as the years went by; luckily for him, he was in Romania and neck deep in the mess of the Warsaw Pact's collapse when Baba Yaga awoke. With the Brujah Council gone and unable to return to the Soviet Union for safety, he fled to North America under a stolen, alternate, identity, and pulling some strings with Tzimisce contacts he'd made along the way.

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                            • #15
                              I thought the questions was about starting characters made with V20 rules.

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