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Bring me your broken starting characters (V20 Material Only) (Just for fun)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    I thought the questions was about starting characters made with V20 rules.
    Well DAV20 is fine too, since it's a V20 book.

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    • #17
      I always consider DAV20 and V20 to be different gamelines because there are mechanical differences between the Clans and the Disciplines of each (the Nagajara and Celerity are an example of each).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
        I always consider DAV20 and V20 to be different gamelines because there are mechanical differences between the Clans and the Disciplines of each (the Nagajara and Celerity are an example of each).
        DAV20 isn't a 20th Anniversary for DA, it's a DA expansion for V20. The mechanical changes feel more like updates in many cases. The change in the Nagaraja weakness makes sense and robs them of a huge benefit to the weakness (let them take the Giovanni Cannibal merit to get back the old impact of it). The Celerity change makes sense and balances the power a bit, and this works in both DAV20 and V20.

        Dementation 2 using the 4 humours in THE CRUNCH and not the fluff, and being curable with medicine? That stuff is bullshit, ignore that stuff.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

          Ugh, abominations. Fuck that.
          I actually really like Abominations as a concept. They make good NPCs and twisted pitiful setpieces. To simplify things I rob them of all Werewolf stats other than their Forms (Human, wolf-man, Crinos, big wolf, wolf) and their weakness to silver. Gifts, Rank, Gnosis, Rage, all gone. Regeneration is gone, Delirium is gone, Stepping Sideways is gone. Changing forms uses blood, and Abominations manifest punishing supernatural flaws. These can include an aversion to human blood, animal blood, hatred of moonlight (STOP JUDGING ME), increased risk of frenzy... you get the idea.

          Are the forms broken? Well... the free Aggravated damage is powerful, but you spend a turn transforming and you are a Masquerade breach of epic proportions, plus everyone hates you if they see Crinos (unless you can pass as a Gangrel Elder). You don't keep anything else, so I can see it working as a PC if the downsides are punishing enough. I ignore the "no regaining Willpower/Humanity" thing since it feels prohibitory. Vampires are tragic because CIRCUMSTANCE forces them to lose their humanity, tragic mistakes and errors, their nature pushing them gently towards withdrawing and becoming a monster. It's never forced. Just make Self-control rolls +1 difficulty (stacking with the Brujah weakness and other flaws) and they'll descend more rapidly compared to other Kindred, on average.

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          • #20
            Using V20

            "The Lobbyist"

            Clan: Any with Dominate as a Clan Disciple though Ventrue, Tremere, or Giovanni work best given the large number of mortals the vampire deals with regularly.

            Definition of Power: Being able to pick up a phone or talk to someone and get exactly what they want from them

            Key Stats:
            • Attributes: Charisma 4, Manipulation 4, Wits 4
            • Abilities: Expression 3, Leadership 3, Intimidation 3, Subterfuge 3, Finance 3, Law 3, Politics 3
            • Backgrounds: Allies 5, Contacts 5 (5 freebies), Influence 5 (5 freebies), Resources 5 (5 freebies) - (15 freebies total)
            • Disciplines: Dominate 3
            • Merits: Enchanting Voice (2), Natural Leader (1), Lucky (3) - (5 freebies) (20 freebies total)
            • Flaws: Bad Sight 1, Tic/Twitch (1), Lame (3) - (+5 freebies) (15 freebies total)
            The idea behind this character is that they have the ability to get any mortal task done with a phone call or talking to someone. Each level of Dominate has a dice pool of 7 to activate with difficulties reduced by 2 (Enchanting Voice), and in the case of Mesmerize 2 additional dice (Natural Leader) with reroll backup (Lucky). Their backgrounds given them an immense network of mortals to call upon and they have the abilities and resources to insure that they do as they are told and the knowledges to apply them properly. Even when dealing with people outside of their network and not using Dominate they still have a high dice pool and the bonuses from the aforementioned merits. As an added bonus this character would be an amazing Masquerade breach cleaner giving them an easy way to garner future influence in kindred society.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
              A True Brujah Sadhana practitioner. Focused Mind boosts your Wits to dangerously high levels, use the Wits-based roll for Temporis 5 to give yourself extra actions, teleport in (action 1), attack (actions 2-(n-1)), teleport out (action n).
              Temporis is based on INT not on WIS. And one thing that often prevents stuff like this is the amout of Blood you are allowed to spend per round.

              Btw. I don't really think that the teleportation is such a big thing, but Focused Mind + Temposris on it's own is allready quite ugly if you reach level 5 in both. What you have to do is use Focused Mind 5 to lower your difficulties, use Temporis 5 to get extra actions and Temporis 4 (at least I think it is 4) to prevent your opponent from taking extra actions.
              If it should get really ugly use also path of Blood 3 wich also solves the problem with the amount of Blolod you are allowed to spend per round.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Aahz View Post
                Temporis is based on INT not on WIS. And one thing that often prevents stuff like this is the amout of Blood you are allowed to spend per round.

                Btw. I don't really think that the teleportation is such a big thing, but Focused Mind + Temposris on it's own is allready quite ugly if you reach level 5 in both. What you have to do is use Focused Mind 5 to lower your difficulties, use Temporis 5 to get extra actions and Temporis 4 (at least I think it is 4) to prevent your opponent from taking extra actions.
                If it should get really ugly use also path of Blood 3 wich also solves the problem with the amount of Blolod you are allowed to spend per round.
                The rules for Temporis keep changing; I think either DAV20 or V20 has at least one Wits roll.

                And you're right. Get multiple actions with Temporis, then lower all difficulties for the scene by 2. Then activate Path of Blood 3 to drop Generation, and you're golden. Re-roll the Temporis roll if you like and it's going to be a bad time for your opponent (regardless of the task, Certamen, physical fight, talent contest).

                Teleportation is quite a big deal, IMO. If I think back to the first VTM game I ever played, and think of the times I needed to teleport:

                - When I was pinned down by two Gargoyles and the ST said my Strength 15 (Potence 5 and Blood Pump) wasn't enough to lift them or escape (bullshit but teleportation is a good fix).
                - When I was confronted by a Sabbat Elder who had used Group Dominate to make everyone kneel; he didn't say anything about teleporting away, did he?
                - When I was being chased down by a Blood Brother amalgamation of 8 brothers, who knew that I had killed 2 of the other circle-members.
                - When Baron Samedi decided to put me into Torpor to teach me a lesson and grabbed me, and hit me with his powers the next turn.
                - When I was pinned down (again) and had my face torn off as punishment by the Prince.
                - When another PC was stuck inside of a compound with SWAT storming in, and the only way in was to use Celerity to move past them which would be a huge Masquerade risk.
                - When a captured Sabbat agent was running away through a straight corridor which could only fit single file, so teleporting in front of him would have trapped him completely.
                - I could go on.

                Shadowstep, a level 6 power, is more limited than level 1 Mercury. Personally I might make Mercury take 2 turns to pull off (you can fast-cast, lasting 1 turn, by spending Willpower and increasing the difficulty by 2).

                Teleportation is the perfect power for infiltration, combat and exfiltration, and even at level 1 it's a force to be reckoned with. I mean, 7 consecutive uses of level 5 will take you from London to New York in 7 turns (21 seconds at a minimum). Unless the ST hits you with some "you land on top of a Rokea" bullshit, this is quite a safe way to travel.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cynic01 View Post
                  Using V20

                  "The Lobbyist"

                  Clan: Any with Dominate as a Clan Disciple though Ventrue, Tremere, or Giovanni work best given the large number of mortals the vampire deals with regularly.

                  Definition of Power: Being able to pick up a phone or talk to someone and get exactly what they want from them

                  Key Stats:
                  • Attributes: Charisma 4, Manipulation 4, Wits 4
                  • Abilities: Expression 3, Leadership 3, Intimidation 3, Subterfuge 3, Finance 3, Law 3, Politics 3
                  • Backgrounds: Allies 5, Contacts 5 (5 freebies), Influence 5 (5 freebies), Resources 5 (5 freebies) - (15 freebies total)
                  • Disciplines: Dominate 3
                  • Merits: Enchanting Voice (2), Natural Leader (1), Lucky (3) - (5 freebies) (20 freebies total)
                  • Flaws: Bad Sight 1, Tic/Twitch (1), Lame (3) - (+5 freebies) (15 freebies total)
                  The idea behind this character is that they have the ability to get any mortal task done with a phone call or talking to someone. Each level of Dominate has a dice pool of 7 to activate with difficulties reduced by 2 (Enchanting Voice), and in the case of Mesmerize 2 additional dice (Natural Leader) with reroll backup (Lucky). Their backgrounds given them an immense network of mortals to call upon and they have the abilities and resources to insure that they do as they are told and the knowledges to apply them properly. Even when dealing with people outside of their network and not using Dominate they still have a high dice pool and the bonuses from the aforementioned merits. As an added bonus this character would be an amazing Masquerade breach cleaner giving them an easy way to garner future influence in kindred society.
                  Go Giovanni and take 2 more points of Flaws and get rid of Lucky to get Spirit Slaves (5). Invisible intangible spy who obeys your every command, can create fires and move objects, guard your house during the day, talk to ghosts and do lots of sensitive tasks for you FTW.

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                  • #24
                    True Black Hand.

                    Abomination.

                    Beserker Merit.

                    Dexterity 5, Brawl 5, Celerity 1.

                    Any Path which uses Instinct.

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                    • #25
                      Without Generation 5 and/or Willpower 10, the Lobbyist is vulnerable to Dominate (and a lot of other mind influencing powers). Of course, I have never understood the Willpower 3- Kindred. You can give anyone immortality and you choose a spineless jellyfish?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                        Without Generation 5 and/or Willpower 10, the Lobbyist is vulnerable to Dominate (and a lot of other mind influencing powers). Of course, I have never understood the Willpower 3- Kindred. You can give anyone immortality and you choose a spineless jellyfish?
                        Are they vulnerable to Dominate if they stay in their Haven and do everything via their incredible Influence, Allies, Resources and Contacts? And their network of Dominated individuals, and the Retainers they'll easily acquire once the game starts.

                        The only issue I see is someone using Obfuscate and disguising themselves as one of the Retainers or Allies to get inside the house, and then using Dominate. The best counter for this is to use your Resources and Contacts to get security systems which check biometrics and look for cold spots (Vampires) using Thermal Imaging.

                        But then someone Teleports in (I don't want to go VS, but I do want to illustrate how dangerous teleporting can be, as it can nullify million-dollar defense systems).
                        Last edited by 11twiggins; 03-21-2017, 09:19 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                          Teleportation is the perfect power for infiltration, combat and exfiltration, and even at level 1 it's a force to be reckoned with. I mean, 7 consecutive uses of level 5 will take you from London to New York in 7 turns (21 seconds at a minimum). Unless the ST hits you with some "you land on top of a Rokea" bullshit, this is quite a safe way to travel.
                          I think the use in combat depends a little bit on how how you handle it (the action economy in Vampire is not allways clearly defined). And the Path has actually some limitations, every 1 you roll throws you of from your desired desitnation, which can be a problem in combat, and if you have hight will power (which you should have if you want to use thaumaturgy) rolling one or two 1 is not that unlikely.

                          When it comes to infiltration the rule for the familarity of your destination might also be a problem.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                            Without Generation 5 and/or Willpower 10, the Lobbyist is vulnerable to Dominate (and a lot of other mind influencing powers). Of course, I have never understood the Willpower 3- Kindred. You can give anyone immortality and you choose a spineless jellyfish?
                            Take a Tremere, drop the backgrounds, get Willpower 10, and get Path of Blood 3.
                            Or take the cult Background from the Black Hand Book.

                            I think that the Starting Willpower is to low, and that only 5 backgrounds is also not much especailly if you have to pay generation with it.

                            To behonest I think that the start valurs are in genral to low, the values for the more powerfull vampires Black Hand Book seem more reasonable.

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                            • #29
                              I'm the worst with making sheets and character gen. But I always figured a Tremere with Path of Mercury and Path of Conjuration would be an amazing assassin.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
                                I'm the worst with making sheets and character gen. But I always figured a Tremere with Path of Mercury and Path of Conjuration would be an amazing assassin.
                                Well ideally an assassin will have Mercury (5), Conjuration (3), Obfuscate and Celerity, along with Movement of the Mind (3). This way they can travel with clouds (teleport up and then hold yourself with the cloud with Movement), hide from sight, summon up guns while hidden away somewhere... could be very dangerous. The simplest character for this is an Assamite practitioner of Sadhanna, or a City Gangrel who is a New Ager, or a Caitiff who is a New Ager.

                                The issue is that this is a concept which is very powerful in late game, but doesn't have the best start.

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