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  • Ravnos Controversy

    Is anyone still have issues with the Ravnos controversy? I had a couple of players roll into my forum and pretty much strong handed me into removing the Ravnos because it was highly offensive to them. We did write them off with the week of nightmares eradicating them (part of me died inside), but is this really an issue, a thing that should be that heated?


    Tiffany Sanderson
    HBN = HP + OWOD +CoC = http://www.hogwartsbynight,com

  • #2
    The current V20/DAV20 version of the Ravnos is fine, but the older take on them was hideously offensive. Thwy had a racial slur for a clan nickname and had zero substance beyond embodying the worst of a racist stereotype.


    Remi. she/her. game designer.

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    • #3
      I'll have to crack open my V20 and re-read the clan. We offered to make sure that the game was using the new version and they continued to batter us that they were offended until we relented and wrote them out of our game. :/ it was a sad day for me.


      Tiffany Sanderson
      HBN = HP + OWOD +CoC = http://www.hogwartsbynight,com

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      • #4
        Ravnos are overall detrimental to the game and not having them is the easiest solution. Their lore makes no sense - they are a clan of ancient prehistoric vampires that consists entirely of Romani, a group of people that has existed for less than 1500 years. Their clan weakness is that they are a racist stereotype of the Romani. Their nomadic lifestyle makes them unsuited for the normal vampire games which are generally set in a single city. Their unique discipline is extremely powerful and has ill-defined limits - the infamous "I make a sun" thing is just one example. If there is some benefit to having Ravnos rather than not having them - I don't know about it.

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        • #5
          Well does this setting note make sense at least? What would you guys do to write them out of a game?


          What happened to Clan Ravnos?

          Clan Ravnos (Extinct and Forgotten): During a week of nightmares (June 28 to Sunday, July 4, 1999), the clan was erased from living memory as their power of Chimerstry overloaded and caused madness for days, eradicating them from existence, including in name.

          Some still whisper in secrecy that their abilities were not utterly destroyed, but mystically captured and contained by the Magical Congress. No one knows who they were, however, legend has it that somewhere someone with enough ambition could find what they left behind, their trickster power of illusions.


          Tiffany Sanderson
          HBN = HP + OWOD +CoC = http://www.hogwartsbynight,com

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          • #6
            In the Sabbat game I run we have a Ravanos, but he is an Aztec wanna-be revolutionary who has his vice as murder. I think it is all in how you handle it. In my games I don't deal with Antideluvians or anything of that sort. I haven't had any complaints. His character is a good character who is eerie and creepy tbh.


            For different game play videos of White Wolf Games from my play group
            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBU...IhwsM3kHK56SRA
            https://soundcloud.com/twin-cities-by-night
            If you want to find White Wolf game play media or subject matter media
            https://www.facebook.com/groups/862703457198327/

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            • #7
              Tried that angle too :/ kept going on that it was the 'principle of it' and wouldn't let it go. What other concepts can you use with Ravnos? The Aztec sounds interesting.


              Tiffany Sanderson
              HBN = HP + OWOD +CoC = http://www.hogwartsbynight,com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by toreador4ever View Post
                Tried that angle too :/ kept going on that it was the 'principle of it' and wouldn't let it go. What other concepts can you use with Ravnos? The Aztec sounds interesting.
                TBH that's the only concept I have seen with someone who plays in one of my games. I wouldn't sweat it. You just can't make some folks happy. Either have them move on, or just remove them and focus on something else. I know its kind of a crappy answer and all, but it doesn't sound like their is any room for negotiation with them.


                For different game play videos of White Wolf Games from my play group
                https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBU...IhwsM3kHK56SRA
                https://soundcloud.com/twin-cities-by-night
                If you want to find White Wolf game play media or subject matter media
                https://www.facebook.com/groups/862703457198327/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by toreador4ever View Post
                  What would you guys do to write them out of a game?
                  Say that there is no clan Ravnos and call it a day?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ChristopherZacher View Post

                    TBH that's the only concept I have seen with someone who plays in one of my games. I wouldn't sweat it. You just can't make some folks happy. Either have them move on, or just remove them and focus on something else. I know its kind of a crappy answer and all, but it doesn't sound like their is any room for negotiation with them.
                    They have already left which is alright by me. But we have kept the Ravnos as extinct since we already wrote what happened to them.


                    Tiffany Sanderson
                    HBN = HP + OWOD +CoC = http://www.hogwartsbynight,com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
                      Say that there is no clan Ravnos and call it a day?

                      They are extinct. Deader than Dead. So dead nobody remembers them, at all.


                      Tiffany Sanderson
                      HBN = HP + OWOD +CoC = http://www.hogwartsbynight,com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by toreador4ever View Post
                        Is anyone still have issues with the Ravnos controversy? I had a couple of players roll into my forum and pretty much strong handed me into removing the Ravnos because it was highly offensive to them. We did write them off with the week of nightmares eradicating them (part of me died inside), but is this really an issue, a thing that should be that heated?
                        Your forum, your rules. Ban them and move on.

                        Cheers!


                        If you don't use an Oxford comma, I feel bad for you, son,
                        'Cuz I got ninety-nine problems, but clarity ain't one.

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                        • #13
                          If you want Ravnos at your table, do what the books have done for ages now: they're Indian illusionists who suffer from compulsive behaviors. No racist Romani shit, no "I am a slave to my vices," and definitely no calling them the G word.

                          Your players have a right to voice their aversion to the most racist thing in the history of Masquerade, I don't really see the issue.
                          Last edited by atamajakki; 03-27-2017, 02:05 PM.


                          Remi. she/her. game designer.

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                          • #14
                            Yeah, I don't think clan Ravnos plays a very important part in the plot besides Week of Nightmares. At least as far as I'm aware. It can be as simple as saying they aren't a thing and, if you really need to deal with Week of Nightmares, can pin that on another clan. I personally don't think their current iteration is much of an issue and the players in the game I'm in haven't had issue with the Ravnos characters there. But everyone will vary on that, especially given the history of the writing and how far you dig into it.

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                            • #15
                              The Ravnos are spoilt goods for some people. I make Chimerstry into Obfuscate Elder Powers, and make the Clan into a Not Racist group who are reviled by everyone because of historical events. Something of great power is influencing the very perception of the Clan, so there is a lot of in-universe racism towards them due to some Ancient. Due to this racism they can't settle down (their weakness under me is that when they stay in one place for more than a certain amount of time, supernaturals (and later, mortals and animals) become increasingly hostile towards them) and so they roam around the world seeking adventure, money, love, honour, fun, enlightenment...

                              This removes their Vice weakness which will ALWAYS be tainted by "haha G****** steal uncontrollably lol", and their connections to the Roma. Now, there are Ravnos who since the 1500s have traveled with the Roma thanks to a Merit where the weakness does not cause disdain among other Travelling folk (of any kind). This is also why there are so many Ravnos in roaming Sabbat packs and Anarch traveler groups; they don't end up being staked and baked because other lovers of the road don't hate them. This is also why the Gangrel typically don't despise them, but actual racism (not supernatural magically enrforced racism) will still effect them with Gangrel, who are keen to prove that they're NOTHING like the Ravnos when others are watching.

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