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  • V5 Playtest.

    Found the link while browsing facebook. Figured that someone might be interested.
    https://teylen.wordpress.com/2017/06...t-impressions/





    English is not my native language, so i apologize for errors in grammar or spelling.

  • #2
    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

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    • #3
      I like all of this except there being 3 attributes.

      EDIT: Oh no. Oh dear. I redact that statement. This... oh dearie dearie me.
      Last edited by 11twiggins; 06-06-2017, 07:07 AM.

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      • #4
        ...... This is better than what I expected. Much, much better.


        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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        • #5
          Things that jumped out to me:
          * Hunger dice look like any active scene with a lot of die rolling, like combat or elysium, is going to be a frenzy fest.
          * Having d10 TN 6 makes no sense. Just flip a coin, it's cheaper than buying dice.
          * Attack/Counterattack system is straight out of Tenra Bansho Zero. But Tenra is about hardcore anime action and VtM is urban fantasy. It'd make sense as a way to represent Celerity without giving extra actions, but as is - I'm not sold.
          * I don't know why firearms remove defense. It wasn't fun in nWod and it's still going to be unfun. Just let melee enthusiasts play you guys.
          * "You are what you eat" sounds like the biggest handwaviest bullshit.
          * Nature and Demeanor were great and thematically appropriate to Vampire the Masquerade. Virtue and Vice was pseudo-christian bullshit in nWoD and became nonsensical pseudo-christian bullshit in CoD, when "Virtue" and "Vice" stopped being actual virtues and vices.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
            EDIT: Oh no. Oh dear. I redact that statement. This... oh dearie dearie me.
            what do you mean?


            [avatar artwork and character are by awesome goattrain]

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            • #7
              Thank you for linking my article

              @Kammer:
              I don't think it will be a frenzy fest. There is about 10% for any well fed kindred to face it's hunger during a skill check and it might be suppressed by expending composure.
              During the brief play-test we had about two "hunger ones" coming up and we decided to not spent composure to see the system. During the Berlin playtest the number remained about the same, despite the longer run of the game. Tough this time we choose to spent a composure.

              The coin flip does work, as well as using various other even numbered dice. D10 are basically, in the playtest, only really useful to check for hunger. Maybe there'll be some changes along the development.

              I haven't had the Tenra Bansho Zero combat thought, yet now that you do state it, it appears to be fitting.
              They might as well import the intermission system from TBZ, to handle stuff like hunger and willpower management.

              The argument for firearms basically been "you can't dodge them". Though I do agree it doesn't seem to be reasonable in either regards of fun nor balance.

              I wouldn't consider the "you are, what you eat" system 'handwave based'. Rather I expect an ST to prepare any special humans if those are around and stick to them. Opposed to giving everyone a random boost.

              I don't got necessarily the christian associations for vice & virtue. I assumed they just looking for something to generate willpower in a more dynamic fashion than nature and demeanor, something still linked to the character. Maybe they'll come up with better terms. As well to avoid the "sloth issue" or problems in different wp-generation rates like between "solider" (follow a simple command) and "architect" (build something that last).

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              • #8
                Nothing about the Hunger system looks worth the effort. The whole "you don't know how many food points you have" is true I also don't know how many mental traits I'd have or how much Computer etc sometimes you can give the player knowledge their character doesn't have and trust them. If only Murder can satiate the Beast that just seems like either a quick downfall of humanity or even "how did the masquerade ever function"

                "You are what you eat" also seems annoying to track,


                the technology "New Inquisition" is INTERESTING but I do not like its manditory setup. The same with Isolation. I really think that's more a Requiem thing the idea of world spanning vampire society is pretty much why I play Masquerade.

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                • #9
                  I do that like all rolls are against difficulty 6.

                  I do like that you automatically get a defense roll.

                  I do like that aggravated damage doesn't become the most important thing in combat by being unsoakable.

                  I don't like only having 3 attributes.

                  I don't like the Virtue/Vice system.

                  I don't like the hunger system at all. Seriously guys, blood points are fine. Relax.

                  I don't like the frenzy system at all, having a check to frenzy on all skill checks is stupid.

                  I don't like that the 3rd dot of discipline is apparently only available as a feeding bonus.

                  I don't like that all disciplines provoke hunger checks.

                  I don't like that Kindred who murder people are less likely to frenzy (seriously, wtf?) and that only murder can fill your hunger.

                  I don't like that you can't defend against firearms attacks.

                  Originally posted by Lian View Post
                  Nothing about the Hunger system looks worth the effort. The whole "you don't know how many food points you have" is true I also don't know how many mental traits I'd have or how much Computer etc sometimes you can give the player knowledge their character doesn't have and trust them. If only Murder can satiate the Beast that just seems like either a quick downfall of humanity or even "how did the masquerade ever function"
                  I would expect an experienced vampire to know roughly how much blood they can expend in older editions, since barring specific weirdness most blood intake and expenditure is in discrete amounts.
                  Last edited by Zanos; 06-06-2017, 10:47 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Zanos View Post
                    I don't like that the 3rd dot of discipline is apparently only available as a feeding bonus.
                    The ready made playtest characters were young to very young.
                    Thus they only had the standard 3 to 4 discipline dots spread over two disciplines that you would expect to see for a Neonate.

                    I do assume that it is still possible that they just learn the 3rd dot like normal.
                    Just the specific character in the specific scenario haven't had them.

                    I don't like that all disciplines provoke hunger checks.
                    They do at first provoke a new dot blood roused.
                    That might transform into hunger, though doesn't has to.

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                    • #11
                      * Hunger dice look like any active scene with a lot of die rolling, like combat or elysium, is going to be a frenzy fest.
                      Note that hunger dice are not directly related to frenzy. Rolling only one 1 is basically nothing – you get a stray thought of one of your victims or something like that. The problems start at two 1s, which happen in 1% for two hunger dice and a little less than 3% at three hunger dice. And even then, it's usually not a full frenzy, but rather some... let's say light derangement. For example, I remember the Toreador clan weakness having a potential for triggering on hunger 1s.
                      But yes, combats do certainly have the potential to bring out lots of stress - and of course, if you spend composure to fight them, you have less composure left to roll against an actual frenzy trigger.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Teylen View Post
                        The ready made playtest characters were young to very young.
                        Thus they only had the standard 3 to 4 discipline dots spread over two disciplines that you would expect to see for a Neonate.

                        I do assume that it is still possible that they just learn the 3rd dot like normal.
                        Just the specific character in the specific scenario haven't had them.
                        Fair enough, although I'd like to see those bonuses calibrated better. Going from 1->2 dots in a discipline isn't going to be as major as going from 4->5 without spending XP on it. If Herd is still a background, it just got a whole lot better.


                        They do at first provoke a new dot blood roused.
                        That might transform into hunger, though doesn't has to.
                        I assume they're trying to emulate BP 10 with variance by saying you have 5 hunger points(really 4 for non-murderers) and each discipline use has a 50% chance to give you a hunger point, which effectively translates to each discipline costing 1 BP under the old system.

                        I personally thought it was fine that some disciplines didn't have an associated blood cost in older versions.

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                        • #13
                          Had very similar thoughts, Zanos. The general system outline seems fine. But in the part about blood pool versus hunger system, hunger system just comes off as unnecessary. Though, it isn't horrible, but the chance of frenzy on every roll is more a bother than that. Also not a fan of the 'you are what you eat' still. I think I could get over the hunger system too if it wasn't for the 'you can only reduce hunger to zero via murder'.

                          Hard to comment on the combat without seeing more examples.

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                          • #14
                            How will they interpret their clan weakness will be crucial. 0 points in social would be the death of many power play Nosferatu.

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                            • #15
                              I actually don't have a problem with the new hunger system in general. But I would have tied it to vampire age to replace generations. Young vampires can drink from a human and get rid of the last hunger point. Ancilla have to kill a human to get rid of the last hunger point OR drink from a vampire. Methuselahs have to kill a vampire to get rid of the last hunger point. And theoretical clan founders have to kill methuselahs, which is why no one wants them to wake up.
                              And the sects are built around the different way young vampires build unions and donate blood taxes to stop old vampires from running around biting their heads off.
                              Last edited by Kammerer; 06-06-2017, 01:11 PM.

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