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Vampire: The Masquerade fifth edition pre-alpha playtest

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  • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
    Also, Karim dubbed Gary's revivification as the "ultimate vampire hipster dream" on FB. Now, I have an involuntary wincing reaction for "vampires" and "hipsters" in the same sentence
    Hey, having played Nicholas in the pre-alpha scenario, I could almost feel the horn-rimmed glasses!
    Also, would you happen to have a link to that FB post?

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    • Originally posted by Cifer View Post
      Hey, having played Nicholas in the pre-alpha scenario, I could almost feel the horn-rimmed glasses!
      I said it earlier, I could get the whole blending in with the prey thing and coming from a contemporary cultural background and age. Certainly, that every vampire would start to wear black leather and going to goth clubs after the embrace is quite a caricature. So, I get hipster vampires as a reasonable thing. I just... I'm really-really not into hipster culture as is and VtM was so firmly gothic-punk and I love that. It just breaks the mood in a big way for me, when I picture some Brujah hanging out in a Starbucks in skinny jeans, flannel shirts and horn-rimmed glasses. Maybe some Gangrel would join with their never-seen-a-trail hiking boots and lumbersexual beards... And I won't even get into Torreadors in that context...

      No, just so not my cup of tea. I could be okay with incorporating hipster culture, to some extent because a game like VtM should stay relevant and familiar to youths and currently that is the biggest young subculture (if it is really a subculture, which I'm not convinced about), but I really hope 5e in general won't be like that aesthetically. Also, I so don't want vegan Children of Gaia...

      Also, would you happen to have a link to that FB post?
      I have. He shared it on his personal page, is it okay to share that here?

      Edit: I also have very unflattering opinion about gentrification and I even like urban decay, to some extent, so it'll be interesting to see what Modius will attempt with Gary! I think the whole thing have a lot of interesting thematic concepts and story ideas, circling those subjects.
      Last edited by PMárk; 07-30-2017, 05:00 PM.


      If nothing worked, then let's think!

      Comment


      • WW just released this https://whitewolf.app.box.com/s/tfz2...3duzra0lldwrx3 for their ST vault program. I think it's a cool little document, I appreciate the attempt to make comparing editions and grasp their core easier (and I think it succeeds on that) and also the inclusion of the previous editions to the program. Thumbs up.

        Edit: if i have one critique, it's that it's too short. I could do with 3-4 pages for each edition... Or honestly, I'd very much like a full expansion, dedicated to just this topic in the future.
        Last edited by PMárk; 08-05-2017, 07:26 PM.


        If nothing worked, then let's think!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
          I honestly wonder if the idea of a unified oWoD will survive the 5th edition. At the rate they are going, they might as well just go to another system.
          I really hope they've looked at other systems than Storyteller/Storytelling. Vampire stories can surely be told using other dice than d10's. That being said, no point in changing just for the sake of it or for lulz.

          I've seen older games getting updates to completely new systems which worked like a charm. But the opposite is just as true.

          When I got more into building systems and analyzing them I've always felt that the Storyteller/Storytelling system does not really deliver what is stated in the fluffier parts of the game. For example social conflicts are given very little love, Humanity is really underwhelming how it ties into the system and a lot of other things. Yes there is a pretty generic resolution mechanic in rolling xd10's vs. diff (now static but before varied). How that was interpreted differed however. In combat the initial roll was not worth all that much but the effect (damage) roll was the real yardstick and you could get 10 successes but zero damage (which has received it's fair share of complaints over the years). So in a game where social interaction is heavy (your generic vampire game perhaps) works mechanically pretty different from one which relies heavily on combat (say a generic werewolf game).

          To me the focus on combat and how to handle that has always been an off one for a game which in general portrays itself being fast and fairly simple. Having to roll 3-4 die rolls to solve ONE combat action (and each combattant can pretty easily, especially in werewolf, have several actions) is not fast and simple imo but rather the opposite. And having such a heavy system to handle combat also gives a lot of page count to explain all the details which detracts from other parts and add to that how supernatural abilities interact with both combat and non-combat system has always been a bit diffuse or in some instances (hello Celerity) outright overpowered.

          So, all in all I'd say looking at least considering a reboot with a new system is not a bad thing. I know, I know there is a lot of recognition and familiarity with the old system and that should not be left unconsidered. I'm not saying, throw it under a bus and change only that there is a point in considering it...

          Cog.

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          • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
            Also, I so don't want vegan Children of Gaia...
            Most CoG fans don't want vegan CoGs.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
              WW just released this https://whitewolf.app.box.com/s/tfz2...3duzra0lldwrx3 for their ST vault program. I think it's a cool little document, I appreciate the attempt to make comparing editions and grasp their core easier (and I think it succeeds on that) and also the inclusion of the previous editions to the program. Thumbs up.

              Edit: if i have one critique, it's that it's too short. I could do with 3-4 pages for each edition... Or honestly, I'd very much like a full expansion, dedicated to just this topic in the future.
              Yep, I would have written more if I'd been contracted to do so


              Matthew Dawkins
              Freelance Writer and Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

              Comment


              • Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

                Yep, I would have written more if I'd been contracted to do so
                Maybe a future supplement? Perhaps a 32 page booklet like the Pathfinder Player Companion line? Or a house project for the ST vault? I'd totally buy any of these!


                If nothing worked, then let's think!

                Comment


                • As much as I dislike the idea of vampire hipsters, I do like the fact that Gary is being revisited and hopefully that means we might have a 5th Edition Chicago by Night, or at least some material dealing with Chicago as a whole.

                  Plus, if the Gentleman Gamer is involved in this project, I'll give it a shot. He seems like a cool guy and his videos are awesome.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Camilla View Post

                    Plus, if the Gentleman Gamer is involved in this project, I'll give it a shot. He seems like a cool guy and his videos are awesome.
                    Yup. Also, in the meantime, Mark Rein-Hagen officially joined the development team and Worldofdarkness.com started it's betatest, which is cool too!


                    If nothing worked, then let's think!

                    Comment


                    • Love that Mark is on it!


                      PENTEX SUCKS.

                      I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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                      • Mark Rein-Hagen's back? Awesome.

                        I might end up buying V5 after all just to check it out. If it's good like 1e and 2e were, then I'll use it.

                        And if it's not that good, I'll use the parts I like and not use the parts I don't.

                        Comment


                        • Honestly, I still have quibbles with the hinted setting changes' depth and extension, how it will resemble (or rather, not) the original setting and I'm not sure about some of the rules changes (although I'm waiting for the GenCon playtest to go online), but I try to amintain an open mind and I highly appreciate their ambitiousness with this whole endeavor and their enthusiasm is sticky. Even for the tabletop game, they got Matthew, Hite and Rein-Hagen on board, not to mention the others. The ST Vault is cool, the WoD.com seems to be pretty promising. The whole stuff started to shaping up nicely.

                          Edit: although, since it seems like we'll get a highly upside-down turned setting, I took a deep breath and said to myself "okay Revised ended with Gehenna, it was stated that this edition will be during/after Gehenna, so it somewhat justifies the big changes. Did I really expect that the End of the World as the kindred of this era knows will go without significant turmoil? Still, the inner grognard wails and cringes.
                          Last edited by PMárk; 08-20-2017, 04:22 PM.


                          If nothing worked, then let's think!

                          Comment


                          • I don't know, I really can't think of a single time where a game setting seriously altered/updated the setting with a new edition that went well, except to return it to an earlier state.

                            Ravenloft, Dragonlance (×2), Forgotten Realms, etc. . .

                            Even things like Star Wars, where The Force Awakens has,. . . mixed reviews among fans while Rogue One seems well recieved.


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                            • I agree Beckett that's certainly a trend in big (rpg) franchises. Although I think Warhammer's Age of Sigmar went well, but don't know for sure really, I'm not really into it.

                              I'm just trying to not write it off, before I've seen the end result on the basis of "being too different". If the writing is good, those changes could be justifiable and even good for bringing in fresh air to the musty halls of the game, because one could argue that the themes and stories the original setting made possible were mostly already written during the original run. Also, WoD had a hiatus, which means potential new players will have fewer connection to the old setting and even a lot of old players forgot a lot, sot maybe there's more room here than in the case of FR, for example.

                              So yes, there are some good arguments for significant changes, but I'm very wary about them and yes it didn't end too well for almost all of the big names in the past. Still, I won't judge, before I've seen the final product, it might be cool, even if it's different. For me it'll depend on the backstory and continuity. I could deal with changes more than with a reboot.


                              If nothing worked, then let's think!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post

                                I can only imagine you're a big fan of Fate Accelerated, because this is a vastly lighter system rules-wise than any of the four previous editions of the game.

                                Here's a list of the things they've eliminated:
                                • the possibility for shifting target numbers (so less moving parts = more rules lite);
                                • 1's subtracting from successes
                                • botches generally
                                • 10 again and/or exploding dice
                                • 2/3 of the attributes
                                • a slew of abilities
                                • all three virtues
                                • the blood pool (in favor of the "Rousing" system)
                                • damage rolls
                                • soak rolls
                                • the distinction between bashing, lethal, and aggravated damage
                                And the rousing system has some pretty serious incongruities baked in as written. You are said to have "Hunger" as a result of "rousing" your blood... but you can never go to zero hunger without explicitly killing someone by drinking them dry. I'm not saying this is an invalid dramatic/game design thing to want to do (i.e., obligate vicious monsters to commit murder to be fully at peace or satisfied), but it really shouldn't be called "Hunger", because I shouldn't have to drink someone dry to cease being hungry; that is, if I drink 1/5 of the blood in 20 people back-to-back-to-back, I should not still be hungry, because there is nothing about the last drop of blood in someone's body that makes it substantively different from the first drop drawn; additionally, you don't have to drink all the blood in a person to kill them (V:tM recognized this and has a provision for rolling Stamina after a certain amount of blood has been drained from a vessel to see whether they die);and since when do vampires in V:tM just categorically need to murder people to be truly satiated? Salubri can't even feed from the unwilling, so I guess they're just walking around hungry all the time?
                                Maybe you have to kill someone to sate your hunger because you're drinking their soul, not just their blood.

                                And maybe there are no Salubri, or maybe they don't have the same old clan flaw.

                                This is a new edition of vampire, the old rules don't apply anymore.

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