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  • #91
    Originally posted by BenjCano View Post

    ...Not exactly a path to riches, if it pays at all.
    Who cares about money if you're sitting on a blood bank? In vampire terms, that's a self-replenishing gold mine. It's your key to acquire local health care and bureaucracy influence, and boons from vampires when and if they need a quick, relatively consequence-free, meal. Money isn't important to vampires; boons are.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

      Who cares about money if you're sitting on a blood bank? In vampire terms, that's a self-replenishing gold mine. It's your key to acquire local health care and bureaucracy influence, and boons from vampires when and if they need a quick, relatively consequence-free, meal. Money isn't important to vampires; boons are.
      I clearly missed the title of this thread, which is "Best Ways to Feed as a Vampire."


      I seem to have acquired a site for running play by post games. This is unexpected and frightening and come watch either the glorious play or the magnificent train wreck:

      The Malkavian Madness Network

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      • #93
        Originally posted by BenjCano View Post

        I clearly missed the title of this thread, which is "Best Ways to Feed as a Vampire."
        Well the question isn't. "How much do you give to the hospital to save lives"

        But how much does a BP cost a night when served to the undead?

        $50-200 bucks a hit is pretty good money.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by BenjCano View Post

          I clearly missed the title of this thread, which is "Best Ways to Feed as a Vampire."
          Well, it's a good thing there's no correlation between providing a good or service for renumeration, and being able to put yum-yums in your tum-tum.

          Excuse me while I go quit my shitty wage slave job and subsist entirely off burning rage for the bourgeois.
          Last edited by Theodrim; 07-23-2017, 11:23 AM.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
            But how much does a BP cost a night when served to the undead?
            Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
            Well, it's a good thing there's no correlation between providing a good or service for renumeration, and being able to put yum-yums in your tum-tum.
            Herd is a background that can be had. ‚ÄčEven without a Herd, hunting is a simple die roll to gain access to up to 10 blood points in a single go. Bagged blood is less nourishing, less satisfying, and carries with it attendant problems not present when you hunt yourself (the legalities of buying blood, possibility of deliberate contamination, any social stigma that may or may not attend to being a 'blood bagger').

            You can only supply a commodity to the market if there's actually demand for it. Given the ease of getting blood outside of a blood bank, and the push factors involved with buying it, I'm not seeing this as a viable business. Granted, if you could control a blood bank, you can keep yourself and your coterie mates fed. But I'm not seeing it as a money making scheme.

            Let me ask you this. Name one character in Vampire; the Masquerade that runs a blood bank. Cuz I only got one: Phil and Vandal from the Bloodlines video game. EVEN THEN it's not just that those crazy kids were just running a blood bank and selling to Kindred. They also were keeping fledglings and thin bloods hostage and draining their blood to supply to elder vampires. And I'll point out that these two are the ghouls of a Malkavian, and given how the entire scenario ended up in a clusterfuck of dead ghouls and potential Masquerade violations left and right, I'm not seeing how this is arguing the point that running a blood bank is a smart investment.


            I seem to have acquired a site for running play by post games. This is unexpected and frightening and come watch either the glorious play or the magnificent train wreck:

            The Malkavian Madness Network

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            • #96
              They weren't selling thinblood blood to the elders. They were using it to cure Phil's patients hastle-free by ghouling them.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by BenjCano View Post

                ...I'm not seeing how this is arguing the point that running a blood bank is a smart investment.
                This is because you're seeing this only in fiscal terms. Here's a hint. It's not about the fucking money.

                Which was the entire point of the post I made, which you block quoted.

                If you're going to quote a post, read the post.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

                  This is because you're seeing this only in fiscal terms. Here's a hint. It's not about the fucking money.

                  Which was the entire point of the post I made, which you block quoted.

                  If you're going to quote a post, read the post.
                  Whatever payout...money, favor, influence, good will, you can't escape the simple economic terms. If there's no demand, you can't sell it. I don't see there as being much demand for blood blank plasma. I'l repeat myself: if you can work it as a means of feeding yourself and your coterie, great. I just don't expect that there will be very many Kindred who will pay you for the blood, in any form of payment


                  I seem to have acquired a site for running play by post games. This is unexpected and frightening and come watch either the glorious play or the magnificent train wreck:

                  The Malkavian Madness Network

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by BenjCano View Post

                    Whatever payout...money, favor, influence, good will, you can't escape the simple economic terms. If there's no demand, you can't sell it. I don't see there as being much demand for blood blank plasma. I'l repeat myself: if you can work it as a means of feeding yourself and your coterie, great. I just don't expect that there will be very many Kindred who will pay you for the blood, in any form of payment
                    Allow me to direct me, once again, to the post you quoted, yourself. I'll even highlight relevant portions.

                    Originally posted by Me
                    Who cares about money if you're sitting on a blood bank? In vampire terms, that's a self-replenishing gold mine. It's your key to acquire local health care and bureaucracy influence, and boons from vampires when and if they need a quick, relatively consequence-free, meal. Money isn't important to vampires; boons are.
                    First, let's divest ourselves from a major misconception you brought up earlier in this thread. You yourself admit blood banks operate on a not-for-profit basis. Now, I have experience with the incorporation and operation of non-profits...they're nowhere near as clean, sparkly, and subject to oversight and accountability as you implied earlier in this thread. Look at Susan G. Komen, PETA, and Greenpeace, if you want examples on the national level, due to the sheer amount of funding they spend on administrative costs and overhead, and fundraising activities, opposed to actual charitable activities. That major controversy surrounding Komen a few years back, for example, was due to their attempts to trademark the slogan "for the cure" and the pink ribbon, which would have given them an effective monopoly over breast cancer advocacy, and when that triggered heightened scrutiny of the organization it came to light very little of their funding was actually spent on breast cancer research, screenings, and treatment for the public; in fact, it was then they were caught red-handed pulling their PPH funding to avoid bad press from the "pro-life" lobby.

                    Then, there's the shit Bernie Madoff pulled a few years back; remember, the non-profs investing in Madoff's firm were misappropriating funds to invest on a for-profit basis to begin with, hence the lawsuits, closures, and investigations into those foundations that somehow yielded no prosecutions to the best of my memory. Those are the charities large and visible enough to draw scrutiny from the public and the government to begin with; not that any prosecutor or tax officer wants to deal with the bad press or potential blowback of targeting a "charitable" organization with anything short of a smoking arsenal.

                    In US terms, that's just the 501(c)(3)'s which are subject to the "highest" level of scrutiny and regulation as to how much they can raise, from whom, tracking and disclosing those donations, what can be done with net earnings assuming they don't nominally operate on a zero-sum basis per annum (most don't), and how funding can be spent, thanks to tax-deductibility and tax-exemption. Don't even get me started on the raw bullshit that goes on inside (4)'s, (6)'s, (7)'s, and (8)'s.

                    Teal-deer, non-profs as a class of corporation are corrupt as a motherfucker. More than for-profit corporations? god no, but still corrupt as a motherfucker. Especially on the non-national level, where so-inclined people believe they're below the IRS's and prosecutors' notice, and not worth the attention and cost (and frankly, most of the time they are, which is why so few small-time non-prof scammers get caught).

                    Now...your appraisal of this situation is painfully narrow. Feeding vampires in need isn't the point; it's a side benefit. The real payoff is in the intangibles; influence, contacts, and boons. You think you can only get boons from owning a blood bank by providing blood? Owning a blood bank puts you in touch with local tax officers, elected and appointed officials, philanthropists, the press, and wealthy individuals and corporations looking for a tax shelter that provides good PR. The networking opportunities are virtually endless, and those networking opportunities can be leveraged for boons and extended influence in the same exact way, for example, a Toreador who runs an art gallery (which are often enough to be worth note also run on not-for-profit bases) can build and leverage their own contacts.

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                    • Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                      First, let's divest ourselves from a major misconception you brought up earlier in this thread. You yourself admit blood banks operate on a not-for-profit basis. Now, I have experience with the incorporation and operation of non-profits...they're nowhere near as clean, sparkly, and subject to oversight and accountability as you implied earlier in this thread...End quote for brevity - BC
                      I live on the East Coast of the United States. When this conversation came up, I looked for local blood banks that weren't run by the Red Cross or the local hospitals. I looked essentially for the sort of organization the would be susceptible to Kindred influence. The only 'local' blood bank in my area is the Blood Bank of Delmarva. They're a non-profit that run 5 blood collection centers in Delaware, Maryland, and Pennsylvania.

                      Already the scope of this influence extends beyond what we'd reasonably consider for a Kindred vampire. I'm not sure that a lot of STs are going to OK a PC having influence over a regional organization like this. But it's literally the only non-hospital, non-Red Cross game in my area that I could find on blood-banks.regionaldirectory.us

                      So. The Blood Bank of Delmarva. Here's their publicly disclosed 990 showing revenue and expenses for the most recent year on record.. I can see that they operated at a loss for the year 2014, how much they spent on the collection, testing, and distribution of blood, what they made through donations and investment income. I'm not an accountant and I particularly feel like going into this any further, since this is essentially a tangent on the underlying conversation. But I find your statement that non-profits aren't transparent questionable at best.

                      Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                      The real payoff is in the intangibles; influence, contacts, and boons. You think you can only get boons from owning a blood bank by providing blood?
                      No, I don't think you can get only get boons from owning a blood bank by providing blood. I don't think you can get boons from owning a blood bank by providing blood at all.

                      In the real world, most predators have a dismal success rate. They go home without catching something more than 50% of the time in a lot of cases. 95% of the time, in some situations. But vampires a la the Masquerade tend to have a success rate that any hunting carnivore in the real world would kill (no pun intended) to have. Even at the highest difficulty (8) on the hunting roll, without a relevant Ability to pair it with and only a single dot in an Attribute, a vampire is 20% likely to succeed in the worst possible hunting situation.

                      More realistically, a vampire's hunting dice pool is going to be much more generous than a single die roll, and the difficulty is going to be between 4 and 6. I would say just from back-of-the-envelopes numbers, that a typical vampire is going to have a hunting success rate of between 65 and 77%. And this doesn't even take into account the 'free feeding' methods of a herd, Presence, Dominate, or Animalism.

                      So I'm a typical hungry vampire. I can go to the blood bank and accrue a boon or pay out of pocket. Or I can hunt and succeed at a game with odds that would put any casino out of business.

                      To sum up, let a vampire run a blood bank and make money from it (if they can out-accountant the IRS) while snacking. I just don't expect any other Kindred to care about it, and I don't see a market to sell it. As for those other benefits you mention, I'm perfectly willing to grant you that a vampire that puts himself at the wheel of a blood bank might accrue those influences you talked about, with the tax dudes and press and whatever.

                      But how is that different from any other non-profit out there? Once you divorce the fact that a blood bank is a nonprofit that collects the food resource Kindred need, what do you get out of a blood bank that's unique to it? Kindred A runs the Not-Delmarva Bloodbank. Kindred B runs the Orphaned Puppies Cuddling Disabled Veteran Children (With Stickers!) Helping Helpers of Helpville.

                      What does Kindred A get out of NDB that Kindred B doesn't get out of OPCDVXWSHHoH?

                      Aside from lower printing costs on her business cards.
                      Last edited by BenjCano; 07-24-2017, 12:33 PM.


                      I seem to have acquired a site for running play by post games. This is unexpected and frightening and come watch either the glorious play or the magnificent train wreck:

                      The Malkavian Madness Network

                      Comment


                      • Yeah, blood-bank wouldn't make much money from random blood. On the other hand, it's a good place to scout for especially delicious blood. Especially delicious blood would sell for a lot.

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                        • Originally posted by BenjCano View Post

                          ...Already the scope of this influence extends beyond what we'd reasonably consider for a Kindred vampire. I'm not sure that a lot of STs are going to OK a PC having influence over a regional organization like this...
                          Four dots in one given Influence, or two to three dots in a range of Influences spread across relevant sectors. Perfectly reasonable for a PC; you were Embraced because you're in a charge of this organization, started the organization, or turned it around into a success. Most embraces of clans that value this sort of activity (read, social clans like Ventrue or Tremere) are because the mortal has already proven themselves exceptional in one regard or another. Transition of power in circumstances like this are relatively non-threatening to the Masquerade; the CEO or board chairman steps down, deciding on early retirement, tiring of the public spotlight, or to move onto other projects, or in less-common cases "dies" suddenly in a private jet crash, car accident, or sudden medical episode.

                          Or, the person in ultimate charge of the organization is an elder, and the PC is that elder's childe, or an adoptive protege, charged with the night-to-night operation of the facility on their benefactor's behalf. In that case, they get a much-reduced spread of Influences in exchange for a higher-dot Mentor value.

                          ...what do you get out of a blood bank that's unique to it? Kindred A runs the Not-Delmarva Bloodbank. Kindred B runs the Orphaned Puppies Cuddling Disabled Veteran Children (With Stickers!) Helping Helpers of Helpville.
                          Orphaned Puppies charity doesn't get you potential contacts in local/regional EMS, FEMA, the FDA, and potentially up to and including the CDC...and by canon, one of those organizations (the CDC) is an emerging hunter group which potentially represents one of the greatest of existential threats to vampires among mortal groups, should they ever learn The Truth, and how close to that they come on a regular basis combined with how trivially most vampires treat it. Being able to keep tabs on that organization, and being able to steer that organization through influence, by having someone on the inside is a pretty goddamn big bonus.
                          Last edited by Theodrim; 07-24-2017, 02:24 PM.

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                          • I'd say an Uber driver would be pretty good. They choose their hours so they'll never have to get up during the day. They'll regularly have completely drunk people in the near vicinity giving them the opportunity for an easy meal. They get to drive around town loads picking up the latest info and they could make a pretty penny by being one of the few people willing to be around at 5 in the morning. They could also end up as a go to guy for other vampires meaning they could definitely get friendly with a lot of people which never hurts.

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                            • Originally posted by The Direful Spring View Post
                              I'd say an Uber driver would be pretty good. They choose their hours so they'll never have to get up during the day. They'll regularly have completely drunk people in the near vicinity giving them the opportunity for an easy meal. They get to drive around town loads picking up the latest info and they could make a pretty penny by being one of the few people willing to be around at 5 in the morning. They could also end up as a go to guy for other vampires meaning they could definitely get friendly with a lot of people which never hurts.
                              That's actually pretty clever. I guess a vamp with a ghoul or two could run an air B&B too.

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                              • Prostitution. Why pay money for lunch when lunch pays you money?

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