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Would a character like this even be feasible in a Sabbat game?

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  • Would a character like this even be feasible in a Sabbat game?

    This character would be meant to be used alongside similarly-leveled characters, in a campaign-based game. In all truth this is mostly a simple thought experiment, i.e. me messing with the system, and attempting to see what is feasible and do-able. This is a somewhat INSANE idea.

    The character is a Sabbat soldier turned during the 1800s by a Camarilla Brujah, and summarily abandoned by him due to his Caitiff status, in addition to other peculiarities. Namely the fact that he resembles a hybrid between his parent clan Brujah, and the Lasombra, due to his in-born discipline Obtenebration, as well as bearing the Clan Weaknesses of both. He serves under the local Bishop a Lasombra, his mentor, teacher, and guide, whom he follows with unwavering loyalty. The problem I have, is that although this might TECHNICALLY be feasible in the system, story-wise, I can't help but feel that the majority of the Lasombra would want him dead. Like coming at him with an axe openly, dead.

    I'm going to post a copy of his sheet below, sorry if it seems I've been min-maxing, I just made this in half an hour and haven't thought to much about it. Like I said, would this be even feasible? Wouldn't the Lasombra want this outsider dead? (I'd be fine with an ST making calls regarding him and why he has it, because I think it makes for an interesting character idea, but I can't think of why he'd have it.)

    https://expirebox.com/download/d32f6...7e2f63dd5.html

  • #2
    Ask your GM. There's no answer other than that.
    I'd allow it, because I'm lenient and generally allow people to play whatever they want to play. But I also know lore fanatics who'll grind your ass for weeks because "Lasombra this" and "Camarilla that" and "Vampire would never act like that!".

    One thing I would question is "Additional Discipline". Caitiff get nothing in-clan, so I'm a bit leery of allowing that. But it's also absolute shit value for you. You save 1 xp on every dot. Wooo.
    Last edited by Kammerer; 08-01-2017, 04:07 PM.

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    • #3
      OP you sure have an interesting preoccupation with vampire clan hybrids.

      Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
      One thing I would question is "Additional Discipline". Caitiff get nothing in-clan, so I'm a bit leery of allowing that. But it's also absolute shit value for you. You save 1 xp on every dot. Wooo.
      Well, that's 10 XP over the course of the discipline, so not useless.(10+5+10+15+20) vs (10+6+12+18+24) Not great still.

      The sabbat isn't a monolith on paper, remember. I think some Lasombra are definitely going to want you dead for the obvious reasons, but you're going to have a pack, and in general going through a whole Sabbat pack to get to someone you don't like for ideological reasons is a waste of time when there's people who want to kill the people who want to kill you. I don't think anyone will make a move unless you actually show that you're a threat to them.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Zanos View Post
        Well, that's 10 XP over the course of the discipline, so not useless.(10+5+10+15+20) vs (10+6+12+18+24) Not great still.
        He starts with 2 dots, and Additional Discipline does nothing in chargen. Being 10th generation he can buy three more dots. That's (10+15+20)=45 vs (12+18+24)=54. Is 9 xp worth 5 freebies? Like hell it is. Spending them on Willpower, Ability Aptitude (Occult), and then literally anything else will pay off way better.

        Also, I could be mistaken, but I don't think Caitiff can buy Status in sects.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
          He starts with 2 dots, and Additional Discipline does nothing in chargen. Being 10th generation he can buy three more dots. That's (10+15+20)=45 vs (12+18+24)=54. Is 9 xp worth 5 freebies? Like hell it is. Spending them on Willpower, Ability Aptitude (Occult), and then literally anything else will pay off way better.
          Sure isn't worth it.

          Also, I could be mistaken, but I don't think Caitiff can buy Status in sects.
          I didn't think True Sabbat cost anything? I'd have to double check that.

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          • #6
            Normally yes, but this is supposed to be an already established character, an Ancilla, not a neonate. As for why have Additional Discipline, it explains why he'd even have access to Obtenebration without being taught it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PunkManiak View Post
              bearing the Clan Weaknesses of both.
              Your character is not a Caitiff, he's a Brujah with the No Reflection Flaw.

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              • #8
                @Malavian87 How do you figure?

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                • #9
                  Someone could Path of Blood him to test. Or do it the slow way by timing how long it takes to train him in a discipline point.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PunkManiak View Post
                    @Malavian87 How do you figure?
                    If the Childe of a Brujah has the Brujah Clan weakness there absolutely no reason why he would be considered a Caitiff by anyone. After all the definition of being Clanless is the weakness not being passed on.

                    Now if you meant he's a Caitiff cause no one knows the Clan of his Sire, such a character still wouldn't be considered Caitiff. He has no reflection and Obtenebration to boot. No one would ever think he's anything but a Lasombra with the Short Fuse Flaw. So I guess that solves your problem?

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                    • #11
                      Malkavian87 The latter makes the most sense, and I think it would be the most logical, and him having a Brujah friend as a mentor in his pack would explain how he got BW.

                      However shit hitting the fan once it comes to light that he's a Caitiff would be interesting.

                      Based on what you said, it might be best if I drop the Caitiff and just made him a rather unique Lasombra.
                      Last edited by PunkManiak; 08-01-2017, 06:36 PM.

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                      • #12
                        ...Obtenebration isn't a Lasombra clan secret. a Brujah with a lasombra mentor could easily have Obten or a Lasombra pack mate. I mean if the idea is to have Burning wrath and Obten make him Brujah. I'd also debate the value of burning wrath over "learn protean 2.."

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                        • #13
                          I know that some books disagree, but I'm fairly sure that discipline sharing is common in the Sabbat. Like, for a brujah to be proficient in obtentration might seem weird, but the typical Lasombra would just shrug. Maybe a few would be revolted but for an ancillae to possess a few dots, I doubt anyone would do anything.

                          Secondly, in the Sabbat, Catiff are called Panders, and theyre considered a clan in of themselves, and have protected status in the sabbat. So it'd be harder for Lasombra to call for a bloodhunt on him no matter what.

                          And yeah, your PC seems more like a Brujah with Obtentration then a catiff haha. Like, you could drop the brujah background and just start as a Pander and itd be more fitting (plus, panders get all physical disciplines in clan, so that synergizes really well with Arms of the Abyss)

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                          • #14
                            Agreed. Except for thaumaturgy and its variants plus some stuff that is just rare, I don't think any discipline is really kept secret within the Sabbat - sharing is caring and with Vaulderie ratings in packs that are near-bloodbonds, noone would be able to stop the spreading anyway. Of course, Abyss Mysticism and its rituals may well be another thing. There, Lasombra may know what kind of crap happens when amateurs try it and keep it to themselves.

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                            • #15
                              Probably a few of the rarer, more esoteric disciplines like Mytheceria, Sanguinus, Valeren, and Koldunic Sorcery are hard to come by out-of-clan too due to gatekeeping and the difficulty of finding anyone who knows it. But the Rite of Monomacy and rampant diablerie in general mean that there's a ready explanation for having an odd dot of just about anything.

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