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Do you wish V20 never happened?

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  • Do you wish V20 never happened?

    Well I do. I think it's just beating the undead horse by this point. The time and effort spent making Anarchs XIIV and whatnot should've instead go to Requiem, it deserves all the love it could get. But that's just me.

    Do you think V20 serves any purpose other than exploiting the 90's nostalgia?

  • #2
    I think V20 was probably what the company needed at that time. How many old fans came back because of V20? I guess a lot. But the book is very much not noobie-friendly.
    In retrospect, I would have liked a new edition from OPP and not the "best-of book" that V20 is. I mean what V4 was supposed to be before New White Wolf bought the rights.
    The sourcebooks are another matter entirely, but more could have been done from the beginning.
    That's even if I like Requiem much more than Masquerade: they can exist at the same time, so why not have the best? And by best I mean a modern Masquerade, written from people I actually trust with the material.



    Italian nuisance. English is my second language, so be patient!

    My homebrew:
    [VtR 2e] Light From a Dead Star: Rome
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    • #3
      I've only recently gotten into V20, reading the book at a friend's place and... sorry, I hate it. The issues are this weird lurid-exploity feel that suddenly crept in. It feels like everything that used to run under Black Dog suddenly had to go into the regular book and it really turns me off. Going into detail that vampires cum blood and how Diablerie is like an orgasm is just stupid. There is no poetry in the whole thing. And that's kinda my issue: Vampire was never a "good" RPG. It was easy to min-max, clans were horribly unbalanced, But there was a unique style to it. This style has basically been dropped. Everyone constantly drops the F bomb, Vampires have sex for fun (yes, I'm hung up on that! You are not supposed to find solace with others! When they have sex, they pretend to feel and expose you for when they strike! It's part of the soul-grinding loneliness and they are rape-metaphors! METAPHORS! God... I needed to get that out) and basically this sentence says it all: "We’re dead, sexy things and we’ll never grow old, and we have a license from our maker to indulge our every erotic urge"
      The second thing is the flanderization of basically every clan. All quotes about others are antagonistic or just petty (remember when the Ventrue and Toreador actually liked each other and it wasn't all backhanded insults? Or how the Sabbat paying compliments to the Ventrue for being noble enemies that may die with honour?). Again: It used to have so much more flair and style than V20 could muster. It wasn't perfect by a long shot, but as I said: style over substance in this case.
      Also they have colour in the images. This is an atrocity and I have already called Nürnberg for trial. No response yet, but I wait
      As for "Should it have never happened?". No, I'm glad it happened. Changeling 20th looks very good and that couldn't have come without V20. It was a shot in the arm and I'm glad it happened. I wish is had been better though. But I'll be sticking to Revised
      Last edited by Davesknd; 08-07-2017, 12:06 PM.

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      • #4
        I mean...it was got me interested in WoD in general. And since I'd rather not sift through the dated material found in 1e-Revised, I'll take what I can get. A bit miffed that I can't really run Vampire anything since my pool of players aren't really interested by that kind of thing, but oh well.

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        • #5
          I like V20, actually. It had everything anyone could possibly need for a VTM game (except for the Bushi and Gaki, unfortunately) and it was mechanically clearer. Plus I like the fact that it was metaplot neutral, unlike Revised and the upcoming V5, which both rely on a metaplot that I personally dislike. If you like the metaplot, that's cool with me. But it's not my cup of tea.

          Still, 1e is my favorite version of Vampire overall.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Shawarbaaz View Post
            Well I do. I think it's just beating the undead horse by this point. The time and effort spent making Anarchs XIIV and whatnot should've instead go to Requiem, it deserves all the love it could get. But that's just me.

            Do you think V20 serves any purpose other than exploiting the 90's nostalgia?

            Or Requiem should've never happened. Worse system, worse immersion, worse rules, worse everything. Like Requiem, stick with Requiem. I don't understand the need to come to oWoD bash it up just because you're a fan of something different, which in my opinion is absolute trash.

            Don't like V20 don't play it, but for the thousands of players that still preferred oWoD it was a great thing. Brought many of the old players back and gathered dozens of new ones. It's the system and setting White-Wolf was built and their crown jewel. You're free to not like it, but don't bash it just because you feel your dear Requiem is unappreciated. I for one would like to see the end of Requiem and Masquerade getting the resources it once had.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Erinýes View Post


              Or Requiem should've never happened. Worse system, worse immersion, worse rules, worse everything. Like Requiem, stick with Requiem. I don't understand the need to come to oWoD bash it up just because you're a fan of something different, which in my opinion is absolute trash.

              Don't like V20 don't play it, but for the thousands of players that still preferred oWoD it was a great thing. Brought many of the old players back and gathered dozens of new ones. It's the system and setting White-Wolf was built and their crown jewel. You're free to not like it, but don't bash it just because you feel your dear Requiem is unappreciated. I for one would like to see the end of Requiem and Masquerade getting the resources it once had.

              After seeing how Requiem 2e turned out, I'm inclined to agree with this statement. And I started with Requiem before switching to Masquerade. If you don't like V20 and prefer Requiem, that's perfectly fine. We have a Requiem sub-forum on here. I don't see why someone had to make a thread here just to bash V20 without any particular reason.

              That being said, I don't like the direction that V5 seems to be going in so far. Luckily we'll have the Storyteller's Vault soon enough, and I can make my own sourcebooks for 1e and 2e (my favorite editions of Vampire).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Camilla View Post
                That being said, I don't like the direction that V5 seems to be going in so far. Luckily we'll have the Storyteller's Vault soon enough, and I can make my own sourcebooks for 1e and 2e (my favorite editions of Vampire).
                I feel the same. One of the best things of V20, in my opinion, is the dismissal of the metaplot. They give it an air that Gehenna might or might not have happened, Gangrel might or might not have left Camarilla, etc. You have the rules and setting to play as you like it best. Which for me is just perfect.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Erinýes View Post

                  I feel the same. One of the best things of V20, in my opinion, is the dismissal of the metaplot. They give it an air that Gehenna might or might not have happened, Gangrel might or might not have left Camarilla, etc. You have the rules and setting to play as you like it best. Which for me is just perfect.

                  Agreed. The decision to go metaplot-neutral and leave things up to the players and ST's to decide was the best thing about V20 in my book.

                  Once the Storyteller's Vault is up and running and the terms have been clearly defined, I may make myself a 1e sourcebook for the area where I live (Roanoke, Virginia and its greater metropolitan area collectively known as the Roanoke Valley)

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                  • #10
                    I liked the metaplot neutrality of V20. I think that the metaplot of Revised ended up being mishandled and I hate everything that I have heard about V5. I think that we will soon be wishing that V5 never happened, but I doubt that many of us will wish the same of V20.

                    Concerning VtR, it is just not that popular of a game. If you are concerned about mechanics, you use GURPS. If you are concerned about setting, you use VtM. VtR just exists in the mediocre center, too mechanics lite for people who worry about mechanics and too setting lite for people who worry about settings.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Camilla View Post
                      I may make myself a 1e sourcebook for the area where I live (Roanoke, Virginia and its greater metropolitan area collectively known as the Roanoke Valley)
                      I really like 1st and 2nd Edition by night books. Even those who are bad have great premises that with a little bit (or sometimes a lot lol) turn into great chronicles. I took "Alien Hunger" updated it to 2015 and shaped a lot of the setting and NPCs, but still enjoy it's core story, especially for new players.

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                      • #12
                        V20 was what got me to give cWoD a go after only playing nWoD/CofD for years and I've quite enjoyed it (and I don't like what I've seen of White Wolf's V5), so I'd have to say no.

                        I already have an entire edition's worth of VtR, and a new corebook for the new edition (and now one or two sourcebooks). Having a big neat compendium of this other game I'd missed out on is cool.

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                        • #13
                          V20 is by far the best thing that happened to the franchise and most likely the company since rev. Requiem can't hold a candle to V:TM in all the areas that i want from a table top game.

                          Not only that, it was exactly what many players wanted. The agnostic meta plot slide ins, plus the compilation character of the book was immense.

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                          • #14
                            Lets see:
                            1. Breathed life into what was a dead game for close to a decade
                            2. Got many, many people back into the hobby, and introduced it to new players with a relatively hand omnibus edition
                            3. Led to the development of both metaplot and mechanics in a more streamlined and up-to-date way than the old editions
                            4. Before the Pdox takeover, paved the way for the OPP version of 5th Edition


                            What low-mental-statted character does not think that V20 was a good idea? X20 in general was a good idea.

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                            • #15
                              V20 did an important service of compiling most of the best material that had been floating around the many, many previously published source-books. This put it all in one place for new or casual players.

                              That was good, anyway.

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