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Thinblooded Caitiff and Diablerie

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  • Thinblooded Caitiff and Diablerie

    So, there is this 14th generation Caitiff with the Thin Blood flaw.

    He starts diablerizing his way up the foodchain (and somehow survives).

    a) Would he lose the Thin Blood flaw at some point?
    b) Will he turn into a real boy... err vampire at some point, that is, will he manifest a clan, or could he end up being a 6th generation Caitiff with enough diablerie?

  • #2
    He'll lose the flaw but will never manifest a clan, Mukthar Bey the Prince of Cairo is a 7th generation Caitiff vampire

    Oh also, you can't serial diablerize like that and make it far, diablerie is one of the quickest ways to go below 1 on the Humanity scale
    Last edited by Shawarbaaz; 09-17-2017, 09:30 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Shawarbaaz View Post
      you can't serial diablerize like that and make it far, diablerie is one of the quickest ways to go below 1 on the Humanity scale
      How do you come to that conclusion?

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      • #4
        When committing diablerie you're literally consuming the soul of another person - that's pretty much a automatic humanity loss.

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        • #5
          Yes, thin blood is a function of generation, meaning that if a thin blood character eats their way to 13th or lower they lose the corresponding flaw. No, they won't manifest a clan; that is a function of the Becoming, which is as much nurture in a vampire's formative nights (literally, nights) as it is nature by way of the blood. Once a Caitiff, always a Caitiff, with the lone exception of the Baali's second Embrace.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Katastrophe View Post

            How do you come to that conclusion?
            .. Let's see, one of the few actions that is considered an automatic penalty on humanity without a conscience roll, eats up more than one dot at higher humanity levels, literally eating the soul of another vampire, gee, I wonder how I came up to this conclusion.

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            • #7
              You could buy your humanity back up between Diableries. Yes not easy or quick and you'll probably won't get it very high again (And as a GM I might not allow it either after a point), but theoretical it's possible.

              As for thin blooded flaw - there seems to be nothing that says you need to be 14th or higher generation in V20, and you could build an 8th gen thin blood. Makes little sense, but the rules seem to allow it.

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              • #8
                Does diablerie cost path points, or just humanity?

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                • #9
                  Hmm, good point. Only Humanity is automatically lost. A path might call for a roll, but its not automatic.

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                  • #10
                    Depends on the Path. Some Paths don't care and Path of Blood makes it mandatory.

                    Quatar "You could buy your humanity back up between Diableries." ----------> This doesn't make any sense. Humanity is not a stat or a contract where you try to go around the clauses. If you increase your humanity is because you reflect on your past/current sins and come to realize they are abominations and you should never do that action again. You can't go up in Humanity and still think it's cool to do Diablerie, especially more than once. Coherence is good to have in character.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Anarade Relle View Post
                      When committing diablerie you're literally consuming the soul of another person - that's pretty much a automatic humanity loss.
                      Allegedly. While yes, the game always treats the "diablerie is soul-sucking" rumor as being true, it's still presented as a rumor. You can explain everything about diablerie without bringing souls into it.

                      Originally posted by Erinýes View Post
                      Humanity is not a stat
                      Humanity is literally a stat though.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Erinýes View Post
                        Depends on the Path. Some Paths don't care and Path of Blood makes it mandatory.

                        Quatar "You could buy your humanity back up between Diableries." ----------> This doesn't make any sense. Humanity is not a stat or a contract where you try to go around the clauses. If you increase your humanity is because you reflect on your past/current sins and come to realize they are abominations and you should never do that action again. You can't go up in Humanity and still think it's cool to do Diablerie, especially more than once. Coherence is good to have in character.
                        I know that that its how it should be. But it is a stat. It has an XP cost attached. The ST could veto it, but he might also not. This was just an example though. Being on a Path is another option to avoid the automatic loss.

                        The question simply was "would they count as a clan at some point even if they somehow (doesn't matter how) get to a really low generation", and the answer to that is no.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Erinýes View Post
                          Quatar "You could buy your humanity back up between Diableries." ----------> This doesn't make any sense. Humanity is not a stat or a contract where you try to go around the clauses. If you increase your humanity is because you reflect on your past/current sins and come to realize they are abominations and you should never do that action again. You can't go up in Humanity and still think it's cool to do Diablerie, especially more than once. Coherence is good to have in character.
                          Is this actually outlined in V20? I can't seem to find the wording in regards to regaining Humanity. I mean, succeeding on a humanity check is about rationalizing the behavior. Wouldn't regaining involve justifying how what one did wasn't that bad? Either way, if one is an admitted serial diablerist, it'd be overall more efficient (and reasonable) to seek out a path.

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                          • #14
                            You got it backwards, rationalizing the deed means you lost humanity, because you found a reason why it was ok. Feeling really bad about it means you succeeded and didn't lose it.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Quatar View Post
                              You got it backwards, rationalizing the deed means you lost humanity, because you found a reason why it was ok. Feeling really bad about it means you succeeded and didn't lose it.
                              That's not how it reads to me.
                              The system is simple: Whenever a character takes an action that the Storyteller decides is morally questionable, the character may suffer degeneration — a permanent loss of Humanity. If degeneration is a possibility, the player whose character commits the act should make a Conscience roll for that character. The difficulty is 8 — reprehensible acts are hard to justify — though the Storyteller may modify this. Willpower may not be spent for an automatic success on this roll — all the ego in the world won’t protect a character from guilt. If the player makes the roll with even one success, the character loses no Humanity — he feels enough remorse or somehow manages to justify his transgression. If he fails the roll, the character loses a point of Humanity. If the player botches, the character loses a point of both Humanity and Conscience, and also gains a derangement, decided upon by the Storyteller. Obviously, morality is not something a Kindred can afford to take lightly. Remember that a vampire whose Humanity drops to zero becomes a character controlled by the Storyteller.
                              Succeeding seems to be about remorse. Failure is about not caring. But the text makes it sound like justification can be part of maintaining humanity. And that loss involves not caring about prior held beliefs.

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