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Unwilling Vinculum

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  • Unwilling Vinculum

    I haven't played a Sabbat character, so I've never had to deal with Vinculums. I wonder if it is possible to establish Vinculum with someone against their will? I can see restraining a vampire, taking his blood and establishing a vinculum and just as swiftly using Dominate to erase their memory of it. So old Fred the vamp isn't seen for a week or so after some nice Camarilla gang war and then turns up with hazy memories of being badly mauled and holing up in the ground for a week to recover some aggravated damage. But now Fred has a secret, special friend.

  • #2
    Remember that Vinculum always goes both ways and its strength on both sides is random. The more you use this tactic the more it's likely that your entire pack goes and surrenders to the Camarilla.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
      Remember that Vinculum always goes both ways and its strength on both sides is random. The more you use this tactic the more it's likely that your entire pack goes and surrenders to the Camarilla.
      It doesn't always go both ways. There are a few times when people participate in the ritual but aren't allowed to donate blood. For example shovelheads who haven't proved themselves or as part of a punishment. So these individuals get the vinculum but do not get individuals bonded to them.





      English is not my native language, so i apologize for errors in grammar or spelling.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Cadmiumcadamium View Post

        It doesn't always go both ways. There are a few times when people participate in the ritual but aren't allowed to donate blood. For example shovelheads who haven't proved themselves or as part of a punishment. So these individuals get the vinculum but do not get individuals bonded to them.
        Any source on that being possible?

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        • #5
          With that in mind, it seems you could just make a Vinculum chalice, put your blood in it and force someone to drink (Dominate to forget). So they have vinculum with you but you do not have a reciprocating one.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by g3taso View Post
            With that in mind, it seems you could just make a Vinculum chalice, put your blood in it and force someone to drink (Dominate to forget). So they have vinculum with you but you do not have a reciprocating one.
            The ritual requires a number of participants, you could bond one person to a whole pack though

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
              Any source on that being possible?
              There's a combination power in LotC at least that lets you avoid drinking the blood from the Vinculum, and thereby avoid the bond. Pg. 242.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by g3taso View Post
                I wonder if it is possible to establish Vinculum with someone against their will?
                Yes, happens to shovelheads all the time. It's standard practice to force those who haven't proven themselves to be true Sabbat yet to drink the vaulderie without being allowed to contribute to it. It's why shovelheads have such a high death rate: they care about the Sabbat, but the Sabbat doesn't give a damn about them.

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                • #9
                  The Allegiance Ritus is the one where a newcomer doesn't contribute blood to the vinculum but drinks it.

                  Is there a published minimum for members to contribute to a vaulderie? I can't find a minimum, and if there isn't a published minimum that means a sole vampire can establish vinculum with someone who drinks. Can anyone confirm if there is a minimum number of participants to do the vaulderie rite?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by g3taso View Post
                    Is there a published minimum for members to contribute to a vaulderie? I can't find a minimum, and if there isn't a published minimum that means a sole vampire can establish vinculum with someone who drinks. Can anyone confirm if there is a minimum number of participants to do the vaulderie rite?
                    I think it should be three; considering that the Vaulderie was developed as a mean to break and/or replace the Blood Bond, it makes some amount of sense that a Vaulderie wouldn't work with a pair of Kindred.

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                    • #11
                      In no book I can find does it specify the minimum number to enact the ritual of Vaulderie.
                      However there are examples in the book detailing how it works for 3 people, so I think that is meant to be the minimum. Otherwise with 2 people, you're just blood bonding each other.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by g3taso View Post
                        The Allegiance Ritus is the one where a newcomer doesn't contribute blood to the vinculum but drinks it.

                        Is there a published minimum for members to contribute to a vaulderie? I can't find a minimum, and if there isn't a published minimum that means a sole vampire can establish vinculum with someone who drinks. Can anyone confirm if there is a minimum number of participants to do the vaulderie rite?
                        I don't recall a printed minimum, but there's more to the Vaulderie than just sticking your blood in a cup. You need specific paraphernalia and an incantation.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zanos View Post
                          I don't recall a printed minimum, but there's more to the Vaulderie than just sticking your blood in a cup. You need specific paraphernalia and an incantation.
                          I would assume a minimum number of three - the minimum number needed to have a Sabbat pack, which the Vaulderie is a major part of.

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