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Pagan Gods in VtM

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  • Pagan Gods in VtM

    I'm trying to make a list of pagan gods in Vampire the Maquerade, and so far I only got four names so I was really hoping to get some help from the forums. I'm only seeking pagan gods that hasn't been proven to be vampires, so Odin the All-High for example doesn't fit the list. He's a pagan god no doubt but also we know him as a Gangrel Methuselah. Same goes for Mithras, which is a pagan god but an ancient Ventrue. I'm looking for "real" pagan gods, or atleast not yet proven vampires. I'm also not after just a list of pagan gods that VtM hasn't yet made vampires, but they also need to been included in VtM's material somehow. I'm sure Mage, Werewolf and the other games also has tons of pagan gods in them, but I'm only collecting for Vampire.

    So the four gods I've tracked down so far is:

    Telyavel (Protector of the dead and maker of things) - A Lithuanian god that is worshipped by the Telyavelic Tremere. Plays a big role, and even makes an actual appearance in Dark Ages Clan Novel Gangrel. I know that there are theories of him being [Tzimisce], but that is just theories and the glove doesn't fit perfectly. So as far as we know, this one is a "real" pagan god that has major impact on the Dark Ages story line.

    Zeernebooch (God of the underworld) - Probably a alternative spelling to the name Chernobog which is a slavic deity, whose name means black god. In Vampire, Marconius - founder of the Kiasyd bloodline - trafficked with a shaman from a Teutonic tribe to get his hands on the god's blood in order to understand the roots of Obtenebration. It is suggested that Marconius was tricked and it wasn't at all the blood of Zeernebooch he got, but whatever it was it was a key ingredient to him transforming into the first Kiasyd. It's hard to tell if this pagan god existed or not, but Marconius believed it enough and thought that the god's blood would have the answers to the questions he was asking.

    Kupala - I don't think I need to write a summary of a being that has such major impact on World of Darkness. Presented as many things (demon, talon of the wyrm, earthbound), but in Vampire we don't really have any final answer. As far as we know, this might actually be a really powerful pagan god.

    Tlaloc (The vengeful god) - Perhaps the best one since Mexico City by Night makes it really clear that this is not a vampire and most likely a real pagan god. It's also is very active even in modern nights, has an agenda and can even teach players disciplines.

    So, do you guys have any more names I can add to the list? Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    I know in the Victorian Age Vampire trilogy novels it stated that the Ducheski, before the went to the Tremere, worship Pagan gods and it was implied those "gods" were Tzimize elders.


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    • #3
      I mean, one could count Gaia, Luna, and Helios might qualify. I'm not sure how 'pagan' you mean in this context, but I believe a lot of Ravnos lore mentions various gods.

      Of course, everything is just a mask of Set anyway... I believe a lot of ancient Mesopotamian gods are said to be false names for The Children, pre-Light beings of immense power. Not sure if that'd fall into what you want either.

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      • #4
        Kulpala isn't a real god. I mean IRL its a translation Error. Everything about it is completely made up it has no basis in myth. Its something like the Eostre thing.

        The Various Jati lines accredit the existence of the Hindu gods and get magic from them. Whether this is because of Mage Paradigm stuff or there really are Hindu gods would be up to the ST.

        If we count KOTE as part of the line there's all sorts of Gods running through the background especially among the Yama Kings.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lian View Post
          Kulpala isn't a real god. I mean IRL its a translation Error. Everything about it is completely made up it has no basis in myth. Its something like the Eostre thing.
          Kupala IRL is in a weird niche where all information we have on Kupala comes from sources we are almost certain were wrong. In no small part because russian name for John the Baptist is Ivan Kupala, and the celebration of summer solstice has been subsumed by christianity into celebration of Ivan Kupala's birthday. This resulted in some monks describing pagan celebrations of deity Kupala which probably were pagan celebrations of John the Baptist.

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          • #6
            Odin is supposed to be very old Gangrel and Mithras is a Ventrue !

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            • #7
              @ChristopherZacher
              Well if that's stated then that's probably the case and shouldn't be on the list. Not looking for vampires but dieties not yet explained in Vampire. Thanks tho for the input, haven't read the Victorian Novels yet so I love hearing stuff from them.

              @Monalfie
              Gaia, Luna, and Helios. Aren't they from the Werewolf game line? I'm looking for pagan gods that has or had impact in the Vampire game line.

              @Lian
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupala
              But it doesn't really matter since in Vampire, it surely is a diety that's worshipped long before John the Baptist.

              @Kalendeer
              Yes. I wrote that.
              Last edited by anda; 10-05-2017, 01:25 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by anda View Post
                @ChristopherZacher

                @Lian
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupala
                But it doesn't really matter since in Vampire, it surely is a diety that's worshipped long before John the Baptist.
                .
                The evidence for the Kulpala as a deity is scant to say the least, so you're ok with fully fictional deities as options for this list?

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                • #9
                  Veles has Cainite worshippers in Dark Ages Russia and Dark Ages Eastern Europe.

                  And as for Zeernabooch, I’m of the opinion it was a Fomorian, it would handily explain the Kiasyd’s genesis’ connection to the Thallain.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lian View Post

                    The evidence for the Kulpala as a deity is scant to say the least, so you're ok with fully fictional deities as options for this list?
                    I'm collecting material on pagan gods in the world of darkness, but only for the vampire game line. I don't put any weight on how much fiction went into them, as long as there is material on them in the books and that they play a big enough role to actually be considered real.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Demigod Beast View Post
                      Veles has Cainite worshippers in Dark Ages Russia and Dark Ages Eastern Europe.
                      Oh nice! Veles might work cuz of his cainite cult. Have to do my research on the subject, but a great catch. Thank you!

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                      • #12
                        Veles has greatly traveled and usurped the names of Pan in Greece, Dispater and Cernunnos in Gaul, Hu Gadarn, Gwynn ap Nuad and Herne among the Celts, Velnias in the Balts and ... it seems, Odin among the Scandinavians.

                        Is not Kupala an Earthbound?

                        If not, in the list of the pagan god, maybe are:
                        - Koschei and the seven Zmeï ? (They are not gods in themselves, but powerful spirits).
                        - Xipe Totec (cf. Mictlantlecutli the Gangrel), maybe a Malfean.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Valentinus View Post
                          Is not Kupala an Earthbound?

                          If not, in the list of the pagan god, maybe are:
                          - Koschei and the seven Zmeï ? (They are not gods in themselves, but powerful spirits).
                          - Xipe Totec (cf. Mictlantlecutli the Gangrel), maybe a Malfean.
                          I stated earlier that he's known as many things. In Demon he's said to be Earthbound but in Werewolf something else. So there is no final answer even if I would consider the other game lines. However I don't. I'm only looking at the Vampire game line, and we don't really know what Kupala is. But to present him as a pagan god in Vampire doesn't seem too far fetched considering the what we know about him in the Vampire game line.

                          Never heard of Koschei and the seven Zmeï, so please do eleborate. Are they in Vampire books and do they have any influence that goes beyond being name dropped?

                          If I understand it correctly, I can learn about Xipe Totec in Mictlantlecutli's story? Did some research and I think he's in Dark Alliance Vancouver or Awakening diablerie mexico. I have access to none of those books so could you share some of the info about whats written about Xipe Totec? Much appreciated.

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                          • #14
                            Bylebog and Chernebog and mostly considered to be dualistic so the same being. And Byelbog is a listed 4th gen Tzimesce Kuldun.
                            You can determine them to be different for your parts.

                            Mythras (The Vampire) could have taken his name and the worship from the god and not been the original god (Same as any listed god/vampire really)

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                            • #15
                              Would Jarilo, Ilias cel Frumos's god in Rod of Sin and Dark Ages Novel: Tzimisce fit your bill?

                              /Ho Dracon

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