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Handling diablerie during a blood hunt

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sultanabdal View Post
    What Cifer points out may be fine in general, but it would be much more problematic when we consider the specific context of a Blood Hunt. There are lots of other vampires tracking down movements all over the city, and you can bet that they know you are participating, unless you are a super lone-wolf type. The Blood Hunt is concluded, but you've disappeared. You show up a year or two later with some cursory explanation, and you're much more callous and quicker to anger; what could possibly be the cause?

    He beat you into Torpor as he fled.

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    • #17
      Where did he do so? Not out in the open, certainly. How come you stayed undiscovered for so long? If you had associates, did they not try to find you, through mundane or mystical means? This might fool a fledgling, but a brief conversation in Elysium would lay the simple arguments wide open, to say nothing of supernatural methods. Going forward with sanction is way easier; keeping things secret in the heat of a blood hunt is a tall order.

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      • #18
        Going into torpor for years or even decades isnt really that uncommon. It's suspiscous, but putting you under supernatural interogation is a lot of effort for justice for someome everyone wanted dead anyway. Is the prince going to risk the political fallback for putting heavy pressure on someone who, on the surface, did him a great service in completing his bloodhunt? Some princes, maybe, but I don't think most would risk the loss of face. Even if they are a diablerist it discourages others from respecting the princes future hunts because he was so heavy handed with previous hunters. Only a very powerful prince could come out of that unscathed.

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        • #19
          It's not the punishment etc. that I am arguing, just that it would be suspected, rumored, and spread. A lot could be intuited over time, just from conversation and mundane snooping. If the prince or the primogen suspect you of being a diablerist or know it, well, that settles it: regardless of whether they choose to punish you, they now has massive leverage that can be applied in myriad ways. The whole point is that it would be very difficult to make a 'clean' getaway just by avoiding the company of others - the point of the original post.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sultanabdal View Post
            Where did he do so? Not out in the open, certainly. How come you stayed undiscovered for so long? If you had associates, did they not try to find you, through mundane or mystical means? This might fool a fledgling, but a brief conversation in Elysium would lay the simple arguments wide open, to say nothing of supernatural methods. Going forward with sanction is way easier; keeping things secret in the heat of a blood hunt is a tall order.

            IF the prince didn't want someone Eaten alive, he'd you know just execute him infront of the court. This is litterally the step beyond Execution. its the step beyond Exile.

            So the fledge who doesn't show up at court for a year comes back abit more powerful its not going to mean much. Hell he might just show back up while the lines are there.. a mark of his loyalty to the prince.

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            • #21
              And a very shortsighted and dumb fledgling that would be. As far as the Camarilla is concerned, you're going down in the books as a diablerist. You may be patted on the back and even promoted for loyalty, but from the big point of view, you're essentially a clan and sect asset now. There's really not much you can do to refuse 'suggestions' from higher-ups who are in the know, and you'll be very closely monitored from now on. Essentially, you've turned yourself into a more expendable pawn than most.

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              • #22
                Firstly any rule in the book or guide we give is always subject to the politics of the situation.

                If the Prince Explicitly state's it in the open before hand; it's ok, and the prince can't ask more of you.
                If the Prince explicit states it in private, you may owe boons, because the prince can say he didn't offer it.
                If the Prince didn't offer it publicly or privately, you better get in quick and offer boons so he can public announce it was offered privately. (It's not just True Brujah that can change history)

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                • #23
                  Do what you think is best for your story.

                  If you are going to make it so that the Blood Hunt in question definitely won't have a sanctioned diablerie you may want to warn the player ahead of time. It may convince him to change actions, if he doesn't then you can proceed with the next logical step which is a Blood Hunt on the new diablerist ignoring ST warnings is a poor idea if you can't face the consequences.

                  If you want the diablerie to be sanctioned ahead of time then let them know that too. Perhaps add in someone willing to do some unsavory things to claim that prize for themselves. As mentioned above this will likely bring out more active hunting vampires that a regular Blood Hunt especially if the target is known to be of more potent blood.
                  • As mentioned above there should be a reason why the Prince was willing to offer the forgiveness of one of the fundamental laws of vampire society. So what would convince a Prince of this.
                    • It's Personal - The hunted did something to the Prince personally. Maybe he killed a favored childe, maybe he wounded the Prince, maybe he disrupted a plan the Prince had in motion for decades. The Prince demands vengeance, he wants the target of his ire eliminated and the best way to make sure of that is to offer up their blood.
                    • Powerful Hunted - The hunted is known to be a skilled and powerful vampire. This makes many vampires wary of participating in the hunt. To make sure the target is dealt with the Prince offered up the hunted's blood to attract those who could actually best him. Or that waves of lesser vampires would wear him down so the Sheriff or Prince could finish the job.
                    • Prince's Grasp is Slipping - The Prince's power is waning and he is not certain that his Blood Hunt would be properly executed. Such a failure would be a sure sign of his unfitness to rule. Instead he offered the blood of the hunted up ahead of time so that others would see to his will.
                    • Prince's Secret - The Prince did something very bad, bad enough that the Camarilla would probably remove him if they found out. The hunted knows this secret and to make sure that they don't get away to warn someone who could do something about it he offered up the hunted's blood as a no questions asked incentive.

                  If you want the Prince to pardon the diablerie afterward its possible he will demand service from the diablerist in question. After all he assumed authority he did not have when he claimed the blood, but the Prince is willing to overlook it for a price. Depending on the situation this could lead to acquiring the Flaws Dark Secret (Diablerist), Bound (the Prince) and possibly even Catspaw depending on the situation (and whether the pardon was open or behind closed doors).

                  As for the social stigma it depends on the circumstances of the hunted and the hunt. The diablerie of a monstrous vampire who most others hated is unlikely to bring about much response among the kindred of the city against the diablerist (in some cases they might be quietly cheering as their vengeance is fulfilled). A hunted based solely on the Prince's displeasure is more likely to elicit wary eyes from the kindred of the city. Rumors will swirl behind the character's back and they will receive cold receptions wherever they go. Odds are stories of a sanctioned diablerie are going to travel around the nearby cities, assuming the Prince doesn't let it out to try to get more hunters from those cities on the trail of the target. The character can expect a reception appropriate to their reputation, the target's rep, and the particular vampire's thoughts on diablerie should they travel to nearby cities.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sultanabdal View Post
                    Where did he do so? Not out in the open, certainly. How come you stayed undiscovered for so long? If you had associates, did they not try to find you, through mundane or mystical means? This might fool a fledgling, but a brief conversation in Elysium would lay the simple arguments wide open, to say nothing of supernatural methods. Going forward with sanction is way easier; keeping things secret in the heat of a blood hunt is a tall order.
                    This honestly just sounds like a very meta argument. Just have or claim a loyal ghoul was with you when it happened and kept you safe in the intervening time. Obviously having the sanction is easier. But your argument seems a bit of a stretch. And really, 'and you're much more callous and quicker to anger'? One humanity drop is hardly recognizable, depending on what their humanity was before. Again, you might know, but I find it unlikely it is quite as obvious a thing to anyone else.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sultanabdal View Post
                      There's really not much you can do to refuse 'suggestions' from higher-ups who are in the know, and you'll be very closely monitored from now on. Essentially, you've turned yourself into a more expendable pawn than most.
                      Because you had so much chance to refuse before! If the prince is going full iron gauntlet on you vs the velvet glove he could do that anyway. So could a primogen. The only way to become a less expendable pawn is to get good at things and well diab helps. The good little Fledge who can't get something done is going to get fed to the first hunter/sabbat seige and no one is going to care.

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