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  • Enchanting items with thaumaturgy

    So my storyteller and myself are running into a bit of quandary. We are both in agreement that thaumaturgy should be able able to create enchanted items(like so robe that provide some armor, or like a sword and that is stronger and lighter) but we cannot find any rules for such in either blood magic:secrets of thaumaturgy nor rites of the blood. So my question, do those rules even exist in Vampire(dark ages or masquerade)? if they do, what books? If they don't does mage(any era) have rules that could at least be a starting point?(being that tremere were once hermetic mages)


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  • #2
    Path of Transmutation, especially level 1

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    • #3
      Right, as temporary measure that works, was wondering about more permanent measures.


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      • #4
        Path of Warding is also useful.

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        • #5
          Magical item creation is always a tricky thing with vampires because they are defined by their weaknesses as much as their strengths. But once you add a crafting system, it is inevitable that the players start using it to bypass those very same weaknesses. So the ST has to be very careful about adding this to the game.

          ​As for starting point, I would suggest looking at Hedge Magic and its item or fetish creation rules, use that as a baseline and then assume that anything that fits the vampire themes is either a bit easier or a bit more powerful.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Thoth View Post
            But once you add a crafting system, it is inevitable that the players start using it to bypass those very same weaknesses. So the ST has to be very careful about adding this to the game.
            This is quite true - it seems White Wolf wished to discourage any sort of mechanic that would lead to 'loot' and 'inventory'-based gaming. In the fluff, vampiric magical items are either relatively easy to craft and thus cheap but only beneficial with some small effect; or powerful but unique, difficult, and very dark and thus dangerous. Flexible and powerful items like the Tremere vampiric swords that grant the wielder Disciplines require Thaumaturgy 8 or 9 to craft, and are super-evil to make. Werewolves and mages are much more adept at crafting; it does suck to be a vampire sometimes.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Thoth View Post
              Magical item creation is always a tricky thing with vampires because they are defined by their weaknesses as much as their strengths. But once you add a crafting system, it is inevitable that the players start using it to bypass those very same weaknesses. So the ST has to be very careful about adding this to the game.

              ​As for starting point, I would suggest looking at Hedge Magic and its item or fetish creation rules, use that as a baseline and then assume that anything that fits the vampire themes is either a bit easier or a bit more powerful.
              Would you know what book that would be in?


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ulfsarkar View Post
                Would you know what book that would be in?
                ​I am away from my books currently, but I want to say it was either a non-splat centric oWoD book or one of the add ons for the Mage line. WW seems to shunt most of that stuff into the mage add on books.

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                • #9
                  There are a few Rituals, like Burning Blade and Enchant Talisman that can make specific enchanted items.


                  Freelance Writer and Storyteller's Vault contributor. Find my work here: http://www.storytellersvault.com/ind...liate_id=17903

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                  • #10
                    Spirit manipulation lets you make fetishes - which comes with serious drawbacks, so I'd suggest using that as your basis for magical crafting http://reference.l2fury.com/index.php/Entrap_Ephemera
                    That or researching new rituals for specific items, since quite a lot of rituals let your create specific items.
                    It should NOT be easy.

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                    • #11
                      There's a Thaumaturgy ritual somewhere (I think in older VtDA material) that allows alterations made with Transmutation (and maybe Alchemy?) to be made permanent. It's a level two or three ritual if I remember right, and it's really only useful for the first level in terms of making "enchanted" items.

                      On top of that, there's always the Bone of Eternal Thirst and Blade of the Forbidden Flower, but those are elder-level Thaumaturgy rituals. Those powers run apace with the Potence and Fortitude "crafting" elder-level powers.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eyrelliah View Post
                        Spirit manipulation lets you make fetishes - which comes with serious drawbacks, so I'd suggest using that as your basis for magical crafting http://reference.l2fury.com/index.php/Entrap_Ephemera
                        That or researching new rituals for specific items, since quite a lot of rituals let your create specific items.
                        It should NOT be easy.

                        I'd say spirit Manip is ALOT alot easier to use than it looks like, though I do prefer v20's version which is less "lol see werewolf" and actually says what you can do with it.


                        But generally I think more thematically appropriate than some "path of blood enchanting" is probably a whole bunch of rituals that allow you to do "One thing" like Bone of lies, or Milk of set, or Gargoyles. One thing to do is to always make it "creepy" its blood magic. You shouldn't be able to enchant swords to just be lighter or robe to be a bit stronger, yes they used to be hermetics.. but they also used to be able to go out during the day. a Sword that steals blood or lets you do "cast" disciplines through("I hit him.. and he's quelled!") or a robe sewn of black cats that brings its wicked luck to those who would dare strike it

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lian View Post


                          I'd say spirit Manip is ALOT alot easier to use than it looks like, though I do prefer v20's version which is less "lol see werewolf" and actually says what you can do with it.


                          But generally I think more thematically appropriate than some "path of blood enchanting" is probably a whole bunch of rituals that allow you to do "One thing" like Bone of lies, or Milk of set, or Gargoyles. One thing to do is to always make it "creepy" its blood magic. You shouldn't be able to enchant swords to just be lighter or robe to be a bit stronger, yes they used to be hermetics.. but they also used to be able to go out during the day. a Sword that steals blood or lets you do "cast" disciplines through("I hit him.. and he's quelled!&quot or a robe sewn of black cats that brings its wicked luck to those who would dare strike it
                          Depends on your st - having a fetish should definitely bring plot-consequences as well as rebellion at crucial times.
                          Regarding the "feel" of blood magic, I also seem to recall that there are very few defensive or healing spells/rituals for a reason - it's inherently nasty, malicious even. You can defend against presence or sunlight but armour or healing potions aren't included for a reason. Hope that helps!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eyrelliah View Post

                            Depends on your st - having a fetish should definitely bring plot-consequences as well as rebellion at crucial times.
                            Regarding the "feel" of blood magic, I also seem to recall that there are very few defensive or healing spells/rituals for a reason - it's inherently nasty, malicious even. You can defend against presence or sunlight but armour or healing potions aren't included for a reason. Hope that helps!

                            pre v20 it doesn't give you anything to go by for fetishes like "what is a level 1 fetish" except "see werewolf" for your whole of it. V20 version actually gives setups for what happens.. and its much more fun than "Spirit escapes" its possession.


                            There are healing potions... you can get roughly ten of them from an adult human being with very little ritual! But actual healing rituals: Recure of the Homeland, allows the healing of one extra Agg per day and requires soil from the city or town of the character's birth. And way of the Wendigo that requires you kill and eat a human being to heal and replenish wp.

                            So clearly anything past your innate vampiric healing should either be extremely inconvienent and/or horrific.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Eyrelliah View Post
                              Depends on your st - having a fetish should definitely bring plot-consequences as well as rebellion at crucial times.
                              Regarding the "feel" of blood magic, I also seem to recall that there are very few defensive or healing spells/rituals for a reason - it's inherently nasty, malicious even. You can defend against presence or sunlight but armour or healing potions aren't included for a reason. Hope that helps!
                              Path of Blood lets you force heal someone, but it's still nasty healing

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