Ṣillānu Bēlu - Lasombra Bloodline Feedback Request

[Boneguard]

Back in this thread Holytrojan whas asking advice for a Lasombra Metaplot. This lead to an interesting segway as to Why is Lasombra's oldest known Childe (Montano) is so young, relatively speaking.

This lead me to posit the exisitance of an much older bloodline, a very secretive one, that survived Lasombra's purges of "failed" Childer.

However, let's say that one of those failed embraces survived in more or less covertly in hidding (a bit like True Brujah or Old Clan Tzimisce), sharing some (or none) of the Lasombra Discipline and weakness (For exemple: Dominate, Potence, Obfuscate; Clan Weakness "Living" Shadow (as per Giude to Hiogh Clan flaw)) or (Dominate, presence, Obfuscate; Clan Weakness "True" reflection ((as per Lasombra Clanbook flaw, their reflection show the true state of their body)). They mostly tend to be Elder and of Low generation and qualify as Inconnu/Autarki(sp) and do their little thing.

Your Character could find a old Fragment that hint that:
1) Maybe Lasombra was not as thorough in his Purge and that maybe one "Failed" Childe survived or;
2) an odd vampire of unknown Heritage was encountered by (...) or;
3) some other nugget to push your character in the right direction.

Edit 1:
Another potential Clan/Bloodline Flaw for this Lasombra offshoot: Cast No Shadow

Edit 2:
An old, richly decorated tomb in Iraq. Inside one of the wall is covered in writing. When translated it gives us:

" I, Abednago,Childe of Nissiku* and Seer to King Samsu-iluna -7th King of the Amorite Dynasty**, have foreseen the return of Lau-Som-Bheu*** TRUE Childer and
I am commiting to stone on the wall of my own secret tomb my Vision.

In the Final Nights, before HE returns to consume us all, Lau-Som-Bheu Childe will rise from their shadow, in which they have hidden for eons countless -rejected by He who created- and take their rightful place by Lau-Som-Bheu side ruling over the lesser Line that has followed Them and who walk the night.

It Has been Foresee and Foretold."

Notes:
*Nissiku is Childe of Maklav.
** The Founding Babylonian Dynasty (Samsu-iluna is the son of Hammurabi).
*** Lasombra Antedeluvian.
**** This Vison took place a good 300 year before the embrace of Montano.

and

And here are some of the ideas I had:

Discipline	Clan flaw
Dominate, Obfuscate, Potence	Animate Shadow (PG High Clan)
Dominate, Obfuscate, Presence	Death's Reflection (CB Lasombra Rev)
Celerity, Obtenebration, Presence	Cast No Shadow
Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence	Cloaked in Shadow (Libellus Sanguinis 1)

What do you think, I've placed them in the order of Discipline+ Flaw that I saw, but if you have a differient idea (Discipline combo or Discipline+ flaw comba) feel free to let me know.

Now it has been long enough, this need to be made concrete:

So I've dragged the Web and came up with a Akkadian flavorful name: Ṣillānu Bēlu (pronounced: /t͡s’i la: noo bay: loo) With a rough meaning of Shadowy (or Shadow-loving) Owner/Master/lords.

It fits good with my previous idea as the Akkadian Empire predated the Babylonian one (who used to be an Akkadian Province).

At the moment the feedback I need the most is for the Disciplines and the Flaw. Should I stay close to the Lasombra or deviate widely from them. Would Obfuacate and Obtenebration be overkill her or not. Should I come up with a New Shadowy disicipline?

Any other ideas and feedback are welcome.

[Sultanabdal]

I am not so sure that Montano is relatively young. In the Lasombra trilogy, it's made clear that the Antediluvian has thoroughly scrambled his memories, including all details of his origins. I think that this particular Antediluvian really likes to mess with his clan and put it through different incarnations, which need not be different bloodlines with flaws/Disciplines, but would have different cultures and priorities.

As for the exploration of Akkadian origins, it's a great idea, so go for it.

[Boneguard]

That's interesting, I haven't read that trilogy (or any for that matter) and it's interesting to see how he likels to mess with his Childe. So Montano may or may not be young (recently embraced) campared to Childe of his generation in other Clans. I can work with that.

The Akkadian link is an interesting one, which I'll probably develop a bit more as the concept develops more. and the idea of Different culture/priorites rather than being a different bloodline is worth exploring.

Thank you

[Boneguard]

One idea that popped overnight would be to push the "Shadow" line even and have the remaining members of the Bloodline live in the Necropolis of Akkad. Coming out of the Shadowlands occasionally to embrace new members and to resupply their herds (I would look into both Tal'Mahe'Ra supplement for guidelines).

in addition or in lieu of Obtenebration/Obfuscate, they would have Necromancy...or not, could be a common out of clan Discipline only.

Thoughts?

[Lian]

I'd consider the Ramanga in this whole setup, they have Obten, Presence, and Obfuscate, I'd make the mid point Obten Dominate, and Obfuscate with either the no shadow or uncontrolled shadow weakness.

Honstly rather than giving them Necro I think some unique takes on Abyssal mysticism might be the better option, or perhaps make them a common practioner of Duranki.

[Nosimplehiway]

Boneguard

I'm afraid to admit, I'm not understanding the bloodline you're making. You seem to have their place in vampire genealogy and geography, but I'm vague on the rest of the concept. Can you give a simple, one or two sentence, description that would sum up their core concept? It would make it easier to brainstorm ideas

For example: "Gangrel The nomadic Outlanders are feral and wild. These solitary wanderers are the source of much of the lore that likens vampires to dark beasts." (V20, p. 81)

Or: "Malkavian: Dangerously deranged, the Lunatics nonetheless possess uncanny insight." (ibid.)

[Boneguard]

@Lian

Although not quite what I'mean aiming for, they would make a good starting plate-forme, thank you.

I had not thought about it, but I could indeed make them adept in Abyss a mysticism or Dur-An-Ki could be an avenue to look into.

Nosimplehiway

It's a pretty valid question and, in a nutshell, here is how I see theit core concept:

Deemed a failure by their Sire, these survivors hid deep into the Shadows, where none would think to look for them, patiently waiting for the day, they would emerge and claim their rightful Birthright. As a whole they tend to be very secretive, manipulative and extremely patient. Although never seen, their influence can be subtly felt in the Night.

[Nosimplehiway]

Deemed a failure by their Sire, these survivors hid deep into the Shadows, where none would think to look for them, patiently waiting for the day, they would emerge and claim their rightful Birthright. As a whole they tend to be very secretive, manipulative and extremely patient. Although never seen, their influence can be subtly felt in the Night.

Okay, random ideas:

First, there are a few disciplines that description sort of argues against: Animalism (no animals, wilderness or relationship with their Beast mentioned), Auspex (most users would have figured out the reality of the odds against them and moved on by now), Celerity (patience is not common among users), Potence (users tend to be a bit more in you face and direct), and Presence (the rejecting sire might have been mollified if they'd had this, plus they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves). I would also skip any clan-specific disciplines like Chimerstry, Vicissitude, or Protean, with the obvious exception of Obtenebration.

So, that leaves Dominate, Fortitude, Obfuscate, Obtenebration, and possibly, Abyss Mysticism.

Being patient and reclusive, willing to hide while letting others take the lead... this doesn't sound like Dominate, so let's strike that one.

Abyss Mysticism is a tough one. On the one hand, it seems fitting that they have a more intimate knowledge of what's in the shadows and how to use it than the main clan... but, it can be hard to assemble and maintain an organization for training new users of blood sorcery. The Tremere, Setites, Assamites, Danava... most of the heavy hitters in blood sorcery... have a well-organized system for research and development of new methods and a network for dissemination of those discoveries. I'm not sure I can see that happening in a very small, very hidden group of vampires. (I suppose the Inconnu manage it, but, well, they're the Inconnu.) Plus, having it as an in-clan discipline implies the line's whole concept is based around it, which it isn't.

So, that leaves us with three.

They're in hiding, secretive, patient, and never seen... so Obfuscate seems an obvious choice.

They have spent a very long time not knuckling under and folding back into the main clan. They also somehow managed to survive their early nights of being outcasts. Both of these traits suggest toughness, so Fortitude.

And, then the obvious one, Obtenebration.

So, their clan disciplines would be: Fortitude, Obfuscate, Obtenebration.... with out of clan access to Abyss Mysticism.

************************************************** *

As for weakness, the lack of reflection would be obvious. Really, how would the first few of them gotten their reflection back when outcast?

Okay, so working with the mirror concept, but either extending it or twisting it.

Idea 1: The same as standard Lasombra, but moreso. They don't leave a reflection, but also don't leave any other remnant of their passing. They don't show up in cameras or motion detectors. They also can't interact with any device meant to sense them, like automatic sliding doors in the airport, touchscreen technology, or voice reproduction technology, both recordings and transmission. So, no telephones or voice activated tech. Even low tech reproductions, like a painted portrait or fingerprints taken by the police tend to fade quickly. In all cases, the weakness is unpredictable. It can turn itself on and off, usually at the most inopportune time.


Idea 2: The same as standard Lasombra, but more metaphorically. Sure they don't reflect in mirrors, that's a concrete weakness. But, what does it mean metaphorically? Lack of self-knowledge. They build their entire existence around fraud, manipulation and secrecy to the point they don't always know who they really are, inside. Their inner self is constantly shifting and changing, trying to find a place it can fit in and, finally, after centuries of double-crosses and endless aliases, be their own authentic self. At the beginning of each session, the ST should pick a new Nature for the PC, but not explain to them what it is. Recovering willpower becomes much more difficult, of course.


Idea 3: An earlier, more blatant, version of the main clan's weakness. They have a reflection, yes, but it is radically different from their actual appearance. For some, their entire form looks like a swirling abyss of shadows, regressing into a cold infinity forever. Some appear exactly like the superstitious ideal of a demon, with horns, red skin and a flicking tail. Others appear as they normally do, but the reflection performs actions which don't match the real events, so the reflection may be seen pounding on the inside of the mirror, in the throes of a violent frenzy, or the reflection might always be seen to perform a blatantly obscene dance, which is definitely nsfw. With the expenditure of a willpower point, the Sillanu Belu can make the image disappear entirely, like the main clan for one scene. This implies that at one time, before they were outcast, the entire clan suffered a treacherous reflection, but have learned to suppress it.

Idea 4: The same as standard Lasombra, plus mental impressions. The Sillanu Belu suffer a power incontinence. They so habitually hide themselves from others, that once per night the ST may activate one of the character's Obfuscate powers, but need not inform the player. Once they realize why everyone is ignoring them or seems to think they are someone else, then can turn it off with a willpower point. Any bloodpoint costs of the power, are, of course paid by the PC. In some ways, this is similar to a more focused version of the Dissociatve Blood Spending derangement.

[Boneguard]

Thank you for your input.

for the discipline, I agree that Obfuscate and Obtenebration are two logical choice. I had not thought of Fortitude, but I agree that it would make sense for a clan having lived various stages of hardship.

I also like your reasoning for Abyss Mysticism. The lack of resources would indeed impair the development of the Discipline despite a more intimate connection.

for the flaw, Idea 3 ties in well with 2 of the possibilitit's I was considering: Animated Shadow (it moves on its own, and you have no control) or Death's Reflexion (it shows your true Reflexion, that of your desiccated corpse). One or the other would be quite striking.

[False Epiphany]

I like those expanded weaknesses. Another alt I've mulled around (or Flaw to make the weakness worse) is to have the sight of mirrors trigger a frenzy roll. Dracula couldn't stand someone confronting him with a mirror in the original movie.

[Nosimplehiway]

True. The mechanics would be easy, too. Just treat it as a phobia of mirrors.

Given what Lupines can do, it's not even entirely irrational.

[Boneguard]

Interesting idea for the mirror. Definitely something to consider and as Nosimplehiway said easily done. I'll type to draft something this weekend and see from there

[Lian]

I had some other thoughts: what test did the fail that "Modern" lasombra succeeded at? Should it be some innate quality of their embrace or just a point of happenstance? Or did they fail at all? are they perhaps the ones that Lasombra wishes to keep fresh while the newer lineage was always intended to be eaten?

I also had another thought on discipline spread. What about Auspex? it gives them forsight to see who's looking for them along with the powers of hiding. Auspex, Obten, Obfuscate with an out of clan tradition of abyssal mysticism and some aspects of Duranki

[Boneguard]

I had some other thoughts: what test did the fail that "Modern" lasombra succeeded at? Should it be some innate quality of their embrace or just a point of happenstance? Or did they fail at all? are they perhaps the ones that Lasombra wishes to keep fresh while the newer lineage was always intended to be eaten?

This is a good point and I had not considered that angle. Thank you.


the Auspex, Obfuscate and Obtenebration spread was also something I considered as some of the higher power could indeed allow them to know if anyone is looking for them and would allow them to keep tabs on the Lasombra too. On the other hand having been "forgotten" by All, no one are really looking for them either, and the Fortitude aspect to emphasize their Inner Strength to survive is also a good choice.

[Boneguard]

I have completed the first draft of the Ṣillānu Bēlu. I've organized it following the standard Clan/Bloodline 2 pagers as it give a comprehensive overview of the Bloodline.

I've tried to create a balance that would give the ST an interesting tool (both as a Foil to the Lasombra and as a Shadowy puppetmaster) will also allowing the player to use them (very likely while pretenting to be Caitiff).

CC welcome.

Edit 1:
still planned is a full(er) Bloodline History, some Bloodline specific Merits/Flaws and Obtenebration/Abyss Mysticism Power, a Revenant family, Shadowlands Related Abilities and Backgrounds, a Bloodline Specific Path of Enlightenment and a few key members.

Edit 2:
Stereotype and Quote has been added.