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  • #76
    Originally posted by LeoBlood View Post
    So... we're talking about a level 9 power... how often to players get to have both Occult 9 and Obtenebration 9? Is this really an issue? If it was a level 6 power, then sure, I could understand discussing it pretty extensively, but this is literally something only a Methuselah or his diablerist can do. Yeah, it was a weird power, maybe the writers should've just given us more lower level powers that players/storytellers could use, but this forum post is devolving into a bit of a shitfit over what looks like a non-issue.
    I think a lot of people(myself included) like to stay away from "because the ST said so" in vampire. Having actual hard mechanics for higher level powers means there are written way for a power to work and ways for a PC to thus get around it. It's simpler than making up powers that have to be strong enough to represent the vampire of that power without it turning rail-roady.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by LeoBlood View Post
      ...Is this really an issue?...
      As strange as it sounds, this is an issue at least insomuch as there are other rituals in the game that have very similar, if not identical in accordance with their own methodology, rules. The one that immediately springs to mind is the Mortis 5 (yep, five) ritual "Sanctuary of Living Death", which has no upper limit on the area that can be affected by the ritual (and this is clearly stated within the rules itself). Theoretically, a necromancer methuselah could turn the entirety of Manhattan Island into a Sanctuary of Living Death, however comical and implausible such a feat would be.

      Same thing with multiple (Tremere) Thaumaturgy paths and rituals. A Regent could theoretically use Dedicate the Chantry on the entire Pentagon, Burj Khalifa, or Taj Mahal, if given sufficient time and resources.
      Last edited by Theodrim; 11-11-2017, 08:07 PM.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by LeoBlood View Post
        So... we're talking about a level 9 power... how often to players get to have both Occult 9 and Obtenebration 9? Is this really an issue? If it was a level 6 power, then sure, I could understand discussing it pretty extensively, but this is literally something only a Methuselah or his diablerist can do. Yeah, it was a weird power, maybe the writers should've just given us more lower level powers that players/storytellers could use, but this forum post is devolving into a bit of a shitfit over what looks like a non-issue.
        Well, there are several things to take into account.
        - Assumedly any power given is intended for either use by the Storyteller or players.
        - Assumedly a power is given mechanics so that it has a fair expectation on how it is enacted and affects others.
        The power is an issue because, if it is intended for use, poorly written mechanics are a negative impact on the game. Now it might not be a significant issue, given the rarity. But it is still an issue. It is a bit off-topic from the OP. But, given the discussion shifted to the capabilities of Abyss Mystics, it seems a reasonable comment on the ability.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by LeoBlood View Post
          So... we're talking about a level 9 power... how often to players get to have both Occult 9 and Obtenebration 9? Is this really an issue? If it was a level 6 power, then sure, I could understand discussing it pretty extensively, but this is literally something only a Methuselah or his diablerist can do. Yeah, it was a weird power, maybe the writers should've just given us more lower level powers that players/storytellers could use, but this forum post is devolving into a bit of a shitfit over what looks like a non-issue.
          ST-only powers don't need mechanics. "Obtenebration 9: Plot Device" is a sufficient explanation of all ST-only Obtenebration powers. If the story is about Zebulon the Evernightful stealing Metropolis with Abyss magic, then question "how does Zebulon the Evernightful do that?" is irrelevant. City-stealing happens before the story begins and if it is going to happen again then it'll be in a dramatically drawn out way where PCs can kick down the door and stab all the cultists. The plot is not about learning the ins of the Abyss magic, it's about finding Zebulon and stabbing him in the face until he returns the city.

          The only time you need actual mechanics is when the power is not a plot device, but instead a mechanic that sees regular use, generally by the PCs. And since mechanics have been provided to us, they are open to criticism. "Uhh, you are actually not supposed to think about this" is not a defense.

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