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About Movement of the Mind (Thaumaturgy)...

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  • About Movement of the Mind (Thaumaturgy)...

    Power reference: VTM20th p220

    I'd like to know some of its limitations.

    -Can you use it to manipulate a subject/object while taking other actions revolving around them. I.E. holding them in place and later attacking them in the subsequent turn? Does it take your full focus or does the power break when you stop dedicating your full turn's dicepool on it.
    -Can you use it for very fine manipulations, I.E. sliding the keys out of a car's ignition, opening a car from the outside, etc
    -How about when using it to 'fly/levitate' yourself, do you need to land to take further actions or can you do other things aside from just hovering.
    -How does hurling multiple objects work?
    -When used against living/undead subjects, are you able to limit any physical action or do you need to focus on specific limbs?
    Last edited by RavenCorella; 12-07-2017, 05:13 PM.

  • #2
    1) As per written, you only need to use your dicepool when casting the power & extending the duration (which is not needed if you have 5+ success).
    While not specifically indicated most ST have seen would require full focus for any action more complicated than hovering / moving slowly.
    So you could normally take other actions (though see last point for the hold)

    2) The power is specifically meant for that at low level. However it is usually ruled that a line of sight is required
    Usual houserule for fine manipulation that requires a roll is to replace dexterity with the path rating

    3) Hovering or walking pace with no problem, running speed & potential acrobatics would pose penalty's as if on the floor, no need to land though

    4) the power specifically target on object/subject at a time

    5) It goes against the theme & purpose of the power:
    -It's called Movement of the mind
    -it's not a telekinetic field but more a push lift
    -there is a path of thaumaturgy to control living/undead bodies, Mastery of the Mortal Shell
    Of course every ST can rule as they wants, but the power is strong & versatile enough as it is without needing this

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    • #3
      @4, it says in the description that elders would animate axes, swords and firearms to protect their stuff. That implies more than 1 object, does it not?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Kendaan View Post
        5) It goes against the theme & purpose of the power:
        -It's called Movement of the mind
        -it's not a telekinetic field but more a push lift
        -there is a path of thaumaturgy to control living/undead bodies, Mastery of the Mortal Shell
        Of course every ST can rule as they wants, but the power is strong & versatile enough as it is without needing this
        I don't agree, holding someone immobile is a very thematic telekinetic power, both for vampires and in other media. Force grip immediately comes to mind.

        There is also explicitly a willpower roll when you directly influence someone to resist.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RavenCorella View Post
          @4, it says in the description that elders would animate axes, swords and firearms to protect their stuff. That implies more than 1 object, does it not?
          The plural usage in that list is meaning in reference to listings of items, not the numeric quantity of items involved at any given time relative to the "standard" usage of the Path. (The same as saying, for example, "She attacked many people, ideas, and institutions in her life..." -- is she attacking multiple people/ things at one time? No, not in this context -- only that she had done so against multiple things over time.) Relative to the elder example, it's simply listing examples of items used (which, when listed as such, are grammatically referred to in the plural vs. singular unless a very specific vs. general accounting is being made applicable) by MotM, not that such were used in multiple ways simultaneously. (Also, the Path's powers are, relatively speaking, limited -- a Hermetic Mage, for example, could run proverbial circles around MotM both in multiplicity and force.) Just saying...


          I have been around here for waaaayyyy too fucking long...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kendaan View Post
            -It's called Movement of the mind
            -it's not a telekinetic field but more a push lift
            Lifting others in the air and keeping them unable to land or reach melee range looks fine to me. Pushing an ankle away to trip someone seems fine too. Blocking completely someone's movements... eh, dunno, it may be a bit too much. Might allow it, but since you're basically contrasting the corpse's kinetic you should be able to not only lift the required mass (as for the Path's limits) but also to contain the strength of its limbs.
            I.e., you could surely lift a werewolf (at level 4-5, depends on its weight) and leave it mid-air, but you'll be in no way able to block his Str 7 arms from moving since most of your power is already spent to remove him from gravity; were you attempting to completely block a regular human, though, MoM 4 might be enough. Likewise, should a truck try to run over you'dneed less energy to divert it sideways rather than abruptly stop its course with a telekinetic punch.

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