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  • #16
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    Can't Kindred use Auspex 2 Aura Perception to know and to confirm that the Kuei-jin are a distinct kind of Nightfolk from the Kindred?
    My ST response is "depends on how many successes you got". For me, 1 success is Living vs. Undead, Mundane vs. Supernatural, that sort of thing. Very vague colours. A Werewolf and a Mage might seem the same with 1 success.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Prometheas View Post
      It also kind of bothers me how a kuei jin can walk into vampire-land and still act haughty and arrogant, even though they're straight up seeing with their own two eyes a place were "chi harmony" doesn't matter(and thus undermining a large portion of their belief structure)
      It's the same in other books. In San Francisco by Night, the Kuei-Jin waltz into California and take over. When Kindred try to conquer Asian cities in Sunset Empires, despite having an even bigger advantage thanks to European colonialism, the Kuei-Jin stymie their efforts.

      '90s White Wolf believed Kuei-Jin were better than the Kindred, because Asian.


      Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

        You must have different squirrels, because the ones around where I am are rather opportunistic and will eat unattended food meant for cats.
        I haven't seen a squirrel eat tuna, the only meat I've seen a squirrel willingly eat was a grub. But that may be because acorns and nuts are relatively plentiful here.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
          I haven't seen a squirrel eat tuna, the only meat I've seen a squirrel willingly eat was a grub. But that may be because acorns and nuts are relatively plentiful here.
          Salmon, actually. It was also dry food composed partially of some plant components, though, and the cranberry content might be what they were actually after.

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          • #20
            They'll come up to the front step of my office to lick at the mortar between the bricks, apparently for the salt content.

            Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
            I have the same problem with raccoons and opossums coming around at night to eat left over cat food.
            Opossums aren't that much of a problem, as they also eat vast amounts of ticks and are unlikely to harm pets directly or via disease, what with being marsupials.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post

              It's the same in other books. In San Francisco by Night, the Kuei-Jin waltz into California and take over. When Kindred try to conquer Asian cities in Sunset Empires, despite having an even bigger advantage thanks to European colonialism, the Kuei-Jin stymie their efforts.

              '90s White Wolf believed Kuei-Jin were better than the Kindred, because Asian.
              I feel like this was a weird kind of exotification where they had to be more magical and speshul because they were, well, "Oriental". And to be honest I feel like this is offensive to Kindred, Kuei Jin, western people and asian people, just all around a bad take.

              There's a lovely moment where the PC in bloodlines has the option to say to the High Priestess "okay, so now even your KINE are better?" when she starts getting high and mighty about the asian balance and harmony between the mundane and the supernatural.

              I mean a big problem with WoD!Asia is that it is sometimes a supernatural place of mystical supernatural mystery where mystical supernatural beings exist in a mystical harmony with the enlightened people, who are all philosophers and poets and magical mystical mages. That isn't "our world, a few shades darker", that's "our world, but #exotic places are Special and Magical".

              The Great Leap Eastwards happened because one of the writers thought it would be interesting if Anarchs were total dipshits in a region where they were the established power, and if Kuei Jin had plot armour in the metaplot. I mean if anything Kindred's infinite reproductive potential and the sheer simplicity of their social system should mean that Kindred are consistently encroaching on the Middle Kingdom, as Kuei Jin losses won't be replenished for years in a fight while Kindred can embrace 10 a night if they really want to. It would also be more thematic with the WoD; the thoughtful and ancient class system, with Path mastery as a common aspiration, and with a sense of artistry and poise, is gradually eaten away by the Sabbat and the Camarilla, undoing their work bit by bit.

              Now the Beast Courts go into more depth with this. It's an interesting extension of the WtA narrative. What if Gaia's chosen had worked together instead of fighting eachother? It offers a different take, and it justifies them being more powerful. They have an extra list of Gifts to choose from because in the East the Ravens and Wolves and Spiders and Rats etc. have actually been working together for quite a long time, and this has paid off in the long run. Now you could argue that this is just "Our Shifters are Better", but it's well written and intriguing. This is the same supernatural species taking a different path, inspired by the lore and history of the setting and our world.

              If the "Kuei Jin" (god, when will they change that name? It's okay to retcon the weird half japanese half chinese name guys) of the setting where Cainites with a different origin myth, who had simply taken a different path and placed a different emphasis while building their society, it might be cool! Instead we get a weird "oh hey our curse is just more awesome than yours" thing where they can Ascend to Godhood by getting their not!Humanity high enough.
              Last edited by 11twiggins; 03-30-2018, 04:50 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                wisdom
                Thank you. Too bad I can only Like once.


                MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                  If the "Kuei Jin" (god, when will they change that name? It's okay to retcon the weird half japanese half chinese name guys) .
                  It sort of has been already. In the Kindred of the East style guide on the Storyteller Vault, it instructs writers to use either names derived from wherever the product is set (examples given include Ki-Jin of Japan, Wan Kuei and Gui Ren of China, Penangallan of Malaysia, and Riri Laka of Sri Lanka) or to refer to them collectively as simply the Hungry Dead. It specifically dissuades people from referring to them as "Kuei-Jin" or "Cathayans".

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Neamhan View Post

                    It sort of has been already. In the Kindred of the East style guide on the Storyteller Vault, it instructs writers to use either names derived from wherever the product is set (examples given include Ki-Jin of Japan, Wan Kuei and Gui Ren of China, Penangallan of Malaysia, and Riri Laka of Sri Lanka) or to refer to them collectively as simply the Hungry Dead. It specifically dissuades people from referring to them as "Kuei-Jin" or "Cathayans".

                    Awesome NEWS!


                    It is a time for great deeds!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Neamhan View Post

                      It sort of has been already. In the Kindred of the East style guide on the Storyteller Vault, it instructs writers to use either names derived from wherever the product is set (examples given include Ki-Jin of Japan, Wan Kuei and Gui Ren of China, Penangallan of Malaysia, and Riri Laka of Sri Lanka) or to refer to them collectively as simply the Hungry Dead. It specifically dissuades people from referring to them as "Kuei-Jin" or "Cathayans".
                      THANK THE LORD.

                      Well that's good to know. I can imagine Ki-Jin who speak English jokingly referring to Kindred as "Kin-Jin" (did I read that someone, or make it up?).

                      I want to include a single HD in my Chronicle, the mystic from the east trope, likely a Buddhist from Japan. However the wisdom they are giving one of the PCs will be somewhat destructive. You know the Guru in Avatar: The Last Airbender? Something like that. Helping one of the PCs to open their Chakras so that they can achieve a greater enlightenment and power. However the final step of this is counterproductive; they want power so they can save those they care about, but the last step is letting go of your attachments, making it a catch-22 situation. There the wise choice (as pointed out by Iroh in ATLA) is to choose what you care about over enlightenment and spiritual power.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                        My ST response is "depends on how many successes you got". For me, 1 success is Living vs. Undead, Mundane vs. Supernatural, that sort of thing. Very vague colours. A Werewolf and a Mage might seem the same with 1 success.
                        I am thinking that maybe Kuei-Jin would be apparent as being Kuei-Jin - or not being Kindred, at least - to Kindred with 1 or 2 sucesses while using Auspex 2 Aura Perception, because there is something about their Aura that clearly says "A Vampire, and not a Kindred." .

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                          THANK THE LORD.

                          Well that's good to know. I can imagine Ki-Jin who speak English jokingly referring to Kindred as "Kin-Jin" (did I read that someone, or make it up?).
                          That was actually kind of what it was from the very beginning. KotE calls the name "Kuei-jin" out as an obvious welding of two different languages meant to cultivate an image of unity where there was none. It was doomed from the start as a "clever solution" for a general name, however, for reasons that are now readily apparent. "Hungry Dead" found its way in around the time of Heresies of the Way, which introduced a vast cultural difference between Sinic Hungry Dead and Indus Hungry Dead. It also introduced use of the term flesh-eaters in place of chih-mei (sic).

                          (One does wonder why, if the creative direction thought it was a dumb name to begin with, they still went ahead and used said dumb name...)
                          Last edited by Saur Ops Specialist; 03-31-2018, 02:31 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post

                            It's the same in other books. In San Francisco by Night, the Kuei-Jin waltz into California and take over. When Kindred try to conquer Asian cities in Sunset Empires, despite having an even bigger advantage thanks to European colonialism, the Kuei-Jin stymie their efforts.

                            '90s White Wolf believed Kuei-Jin were better than the Kindred, because Asian.
                            Later publications severely reversed this trend, Shadow War,etc.


                            “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TyrannicalRabbit View Post

                              Later publications severely reversed this trend, Shadow War,etc.
                              In fairness to White Wolf, not all KotE books followed the "better because Asian" model. But the line as a whole was more mixed than steadily improving. San Francisco and Sunset Empires both came out after Shadow War.


                              Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post

                                In fairness to White Wolf, not all KotE books followed the "better because Asian" model. But the line as a whole was more mixed than steadily improving. San Francisco and Sunset Empires both came out after Shadow War.
                                It should be noted, what I mean by this is it was a trend they attempted to curtailed. This should not deviate from the fact that they created the problem, so well detailed now, in the first place. Though I'm not inclined to detail any Kindred loss or Hungry Dead victory in later books as simply just an expression of that problem.


                                “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

                                Comment

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