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  • EG2594
    started a topic Advice for a struggling new player.

    Advice for a struggling new player.

    Hi,

    I've recently joined a Vampire: The Masquerade game with my friends. They are replaying a campaign they had already finished and invited me to join. I'd played a bit of World of Darkness and nothing of Vampire, the rules themselves are not my issue as the ST is very good at helping with rules etc.

    The issue I'm having is competing with other players, these are experienced VTM players who already know not only the world, lore and rules but also most of the campaign (though they try not to, I can see a little bit of meta in their gaming) the ST is changing some of it as he is aware of them meta gaming whether it be accidental on their part or on purpose.

    I'm playing a Humanity 8 Toreador, she is a non violent, talk things over rather than punch, abide by the laws kind of character, far from what I normally play, Brujah would suit my normal sort of characters but I wanted a change. The character had been turned 1 hour before the campaign began and had no idea on Vampires, so it allowed me to learn the world and lore with her. The ST REALLY loves talking and political characters and his campaigns and have very little combat if done correctly. My character has recently taken over a part of Brooklyn which was unclaimed, the previous occupant a Malkavian was killed by the Ventrue Primogen after one of the other characters, the childer of the Malkavian messed up big time. My character has sided with one of the other Ventrue players and we have taken this area. The Camarilla have said we must hold it for 3 months before they will help us hold it. It is a Ventrue area now as the other character (more experienced than mine) has taken and granted me a good portion to hunt in, his character will handle the admin side.

    Now one of the issues is that the Malkavian character, has joined the Sabbat in secret and has now got an army of Sabbat in order to take our lands, and will offer the Ventrue the chance to join as well (The Ventrue was once rich and through gameplay has lost everything, hence my character trying to help him make something of himself in Brooklyn). Now I HATE PVP, I am well aware its a big part of gaming but I loathe it, I grew up where you were allies in RPGs, you worked together to achieve a goal, yes you had disputes and arguments but you never did anything detrimental to the others, this group especially the Malkavian do PvP a lot and they are good at it. I am a complete newbie to it, my character has worked hard in achieving goals and its all about to go downhill again for my character. The Ventrue will be offered the sabbat, I don't think my character will as my character is all for the Camarilla (they've been nice to her while the sabbat haven't) I do not know this in character, I do not know about the army coming to claim it however I do know that people will be after my land and I need to protect it somehow. My character is tempted to forge her own domain in some other area of Brooklyn anyway, she was interested in helping out the Ventrue character. It is potential she can get a loan off another vampire to claim some area of Brooklyn (providing I improve the area and make it nicer for kindred and mortals). My character is on very good terms with the Toreador primogen, good (for a neonate) probably okay overall with the Ventrue primogen, and decent terms with the Brujah prince.

    Does anyone have advice on getting power and position? And how would I go about defending my territory? My character is none violent and the prospect of her killing someone is unthinkable. If forced into combat, she is more likely to try and flee. I hate PvP and the Malkavian knows it and I think is pushing it with me as they are better, not happy with it but I'm determined to deal with it. I need some help in order to try win it cleverly and surprise the character and the player as they won't expect me to have any plan.

    The second issue. My character is being hunted by Vampire vampire hunters, they function by listing all vampires and demanding money off them as well as names of other vampires so they can list them and demand money off them and names and so forth. They have taken my characters parents and destroyed her life (I am loving this out of character, I think its such a challenge) they are formerly a branch of government, they chase the vampire as long as it is financially viable, if it cost too many lives or money then they would abandon it. My character is thinking of finding info and blackmailing them back and maybe get some media influence to start bringing them into wider world notice (without breaking the masquerade) however once again my inexperience is getting the better of me. I'm not sure how best to deal with it. Does anyone have any ideas or similar stories and how they dealt with it for inspiration? The Ventrue Primogen has said to bring the leader to him and he will kill him for me, but apparently the hunters in force would easily kill him and my character would prefer fair means. Our ventrue character is currently paying them off but they've demanded more and more money each month and now has run out of resources (hence the brooklyn area claimed above)

    I really appreciate taking the time to read this. Any advice is greatly appreciated, I'd rather not have people commenting on either poor roleplay or anything, just advice please. These are my friends despite how they are playing. I am so new to this game and I really want to keep playing but if I get pushed about as a player and a character then I'm going to find my interest in the game waning but its so much fun.

    Thanks!

  • EG2594
    replied
    Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
    EG2594

    And, umm, why exactly are you not STing?

    From what I've seen here of how you think around problems, are able to separate player knowledge from pc knowledge, and see things from several perspectives at once, you could be good at it.

    Thanks very much! I've actually just finished writing my first ever VtM campaign, I'm playing a couple of other campaigns with my group just to see how it all works and after this current campaign ends I'm leading my first campaign

    Leave a comment:


  • Nosimplehiway
    replied
    EG2594

    And, umm, why exactly are you not STing?

    From what I've seen here of how you think around problems, are able to separate player knowledge from pc knowledge, and see things from several perspectives at once, you could be good at it.

    Leave a comment:


  • PazuzuAxelf
    replied
    That's rage inducing levels of idiocy. Dump your ST and find a better group.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    aw well good luck nextime

    Leave a comment:


  • EG2594
    replied
    Hey guys,

    Thanks so much for your help. I explained my PvP and they were impressed and admitted I won so really thankful for the advice from everyone it was great.


    However ufortunately the character was killed today. The ST played the game poorly which gave my character no fighting chance. Went into hiding but was still found and dragged into the sun.

    Very annoyed as it gave me no time to react.

    Thanks again for your help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nosimplehiway
    replied
    Originally posted by EG2594 View Post
    In an ideal world I'd get the gargoyles to help the Camarilla and give back the Toreador Primogen. Their cult to Thammuel is one stockpiling blood for the end of the world and we are able to join it. My character hasn't tried to join yet but found this information through speaking to other Vampires. It doesn't sound like my primogen has joined them as so far no Vampires have joined. Though the Ventrue has given them a tribute of blood which is infected with Asaku, a disease of the blood, no idea if its a VTM thing or something our ST made up. I also found out that it is possible to kill Thamuel whoever he is though my character is not going to kill him, humanity 8 who doesn't start fights.
    Asaku is a canon thing, though most STs would put their own spin on it since it comes from a... let's say... book of mixed quality . No spoilers, but since this is the World of Darkness, you probably have guessed this isn't the sort of demonic blood disease that leads to true enlightenment, and makes marshmallows and sparkles shoot from your ears, right?

    Originally posted by EG2594 View Post
    On the PvP side, the Ventrue and the Malkavian behaved too suspiciously in front of my character, they needed picking up covered in blood and injuries (from a Werewolf but I didn't know that) they refused to answer questions and they wanted a lift somewhere but wouldn't let me go with them, they needed a lift as they had no money for taxis and didn't expect my character to want to remain with them. She called the hunters and they have torpored them and captured them.

    With them captured, I have free reign to take down the hunters now. I plan to blood bound one of their officers, there is only one vampire in the hunters so the rest are humans and I can find their location. By the time the others come out of torpor, they will have pissed off the sabbat a lot as they had a very simple mission which they failed to do.
    Okaaay. So, is there a way to change the title of this thread after the fact? You said you didn't want PvP conflict, but both of your fellow pcs are in torpor. You are officially no longer a "struggling new player". It's rare for VtM, but you seem to have won the game.

    Now, you just have to decide if offing the two pcs is worth the Humanity hit, followed by explaining to the players that, as you explained before, you'd really rather not do PvP, but since they went there first... maybe when they return to chagen, they'll think more about team-based, cooperative gaming this time around?

    I vote yes. It is very much worth it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    You don't want to side with the Gargoyles, anything that even sounds remotely Demon culty is one of those things both the Sabbat and the Camarilla agree are not things they want in their cities. Anyone offering a cult that you can't recognize as at Least a Pagan god is going to get you killed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nosimplehiway
    replied
    Obfuscate is good, but not necessary for the sort of hiding you're likely to need. Obfuscate is awesome at invisibly standing right next to someone, but for your situation operational security is more important.

    You're better off spending the 10xp Obfuscate 1 would cost on raising (or acquiring) Larceny, Investigation, and Perception.

    Leverage the Auspex 2, which grants a -2 difficulty on all Perception rolls, to hide yourself and improve security. Announce to your ST you want to conduct an intensive review of your personal security, with some high difficulty, extended rolls. The goal of these rolls is to find the likely avenues of approach opponents would use to gain either physical access and intel. Between the reduced difficulties, spending willpower, and being able to do this at a leisurely pace out of combat, you should be able to do a very thorough job. This would be a perfect downtime activity.

    With Perception+Larceny, make an intensive security review of all your common locations, such as haven, favorite nightclubs, the local elysium, etc. Find any loose windows near fire escapes, doors with easily picked locks, materials that provide fuel for arson, security cameras that show too little (or too much!), and so forth. If you are in a mutli-story building or one that shares walls with its neighbors, don't forget to secure those locations as well. It's awesome to have a steel door on your apartment, but it does you no good if attackers can just use a chainsaw to come down through the ceiling from the apartment above you.

    With Perception+Crafts, do a full safety review of your haven and other locations. Double and triple check that gas lines, furnaces, water supplies and the like are all in good working order. Install or upgrade fire suppression equipment, including sprinklers, fire extinguishers and smoke alarms hard-wired to summon the fire department. Replace doors and windows with stronger versions, including bullet proof glass and commercial grade, steel reinforced doors. Make sure adequate escape routes are available, including during daylight hours when you may need to flee to a sun-proof safe room.

    With Perception+Investigation, dig up all the intel you can possibly find on one person: yourself. This will tell you how others may target you. Maybe you forgot that your credit cards are still trace-able. Maybe a family member is too public about knowing you. Maybe your accountant has lax computer scurity. The point is to find the leaks and plug them before anyone else finds them.

    With Perception+Empathy and Perception+Etiquette, identify who in your orbit is most likely to betray you. Can you really trust the Toreador primogen? What are the Malk and Ventrue up to? Don't forget to do this with seemingly throw-away npcs. The old lady in the next apartment, the guy at the corner store, the kids in the playground... any of these could be weaponized against you by your enemies through use of Dominate, Presence, the blood bond, or simple persuasion.

    Get in the habit of calling for a Perception based roll, backed with Auspex, in absolutely every scene, even if everything seems innocuous. Be especially certain to do this before approaching your haven, before dawn and before entering any new "scene".

    The goal of all this is to prevent your ST from randomly announcing that some attacker entered through "a previously unnoticed broken window in the basement" or some such. If the ST wants npcs to gain access to you, make him work for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • EG2594
    replied
    In an ideal world I'd get the gargoyles to help the Camarilla and give back the Toreador Primogen. Their cult to Thammuel is one stockpiling blood for the end of the world and we are able to join it. My character hasn't tried to join yet but found this information through speaking to other Vampires. It doesn't sound like my primogen has joined them as so far no Vampires have joined. Though the Ventrue has given them a tribute of blood which is infected with Asaku, a disease of the blood, no idea if its a VTM thing or something our ST made up. I also found out that it is possible to kill Thamuel whoever he is though my character is not going to kill him, humanity 8 who doesn't start fights.

    On the PvP side, the Ventrue and the Malkavian behaved too suspiciously in front of my character, they needed picking up covered in blood and injuries (from a Werewolf but I didn't know that) they refused to answer questions and they wanted a lift somewhere but wouldn't let me go with them, they needed a lift as they had no money for taxis and didn't expect my character to want to remain with them. She called the hunters and they have torpored them and captured them.

    With them captured, I have free reign to take down the hunters now. I plan to blood bound one of their officers, there is only one vampire in the hunters so the rest are humans and I can find their location. By the time the others come out of torpor, they will have pissed off the sabbat a lot as they had a very simple mission which they failed to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post

    nah I assume they are already getting hit hard and aren't on the top of their game to start.

    And that's when they start mass embracing shovel heads for reinforcements.

    Remember that we're talking about people who glorify their vampiric existence and regard mortals as nothing more than food and slaves. If some hunters came out of the shadows demanding money from them, their first response would not be to cave in to threats like that pathetic Camarilla. The whole point of creating shovel heads is so they have an army of cannon fodder they can throw against their enemies while they probe them for weaknesses.


    And while it's true that day raids may suck for vampires, it sucks less so for Ghouls and Revenants, of which the Sabbat are in no short supply.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 03-01-2018, 08:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


    You presume your average Sabbat is smart enough to realize this.
    nah I assume they are already getting hit hard and aren't on the top of their game to start.

    Leave a comment:


  • EG2594
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post

    Has trying to Ghoul them gotten you anywhere with the Hunters?

    Going to try and blood bond some of the hunters, I've not encountered any since I joined but I've found where some are so I can start doing that

    Leave a comment:


  • EG2594
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



    Speaking of not ending well for either party, I'm very skeptical about the Sabbat even dignifying the Hunters with a response that didn't involve slaughtering them the moment they announced themselves.

    "You trying to blackmail ME, mother fucker!?" - *calls in the rest of the pack*


    As for good choices for non PVP abilities. I think a combination of Auspex and Presence will get you through most situations if you use them strategically. If you're looking for more variety, though, you could also try getting your hands on Obfuscate so that you can lay low if something goes wrong. Of course, that would mean you'd have to ask either the Nosferatu or the Malkavians to teach it to you... have fun with that, Toreador!

    Yeah, getting obfuscate was an idea I had but also finding someone that will teach me is another matter! :P

    I guess if the sabbat killed the hunters, hopefully I'd have some proof for the prince about the malkavian and the ventrue. And if a lot of the hunters got killed then less of them to deal with!

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post

    Day raids REALLy suck for most Sabbat!


    You presume your average Sabbat is smart enough to realize this.

    Leave a comment:

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