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Beckett's Jyhad Diary: Aftermath - your guesses?

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  • Beckett's Jyhad Diary: Aftermath - your guesses?

    After having read the really entertaining Beckett's Jyhad Diary (thank your Mr.Dawkins and the others), i have many questions left that i would love to discuss with my fellow Vampire lovers.

    DISCLAIMER: SPOILERS AHEAD

    Throughout the whole book the characters talk about Gehenna being cyclical. I understand that it's deliberately written as a potpurri of different possibilities GMs can choose as their canon. But there must be an official Metaplot Whit Wolf is going to use for 5th Edition. So i would love to hear from you guys, which one that will be.

    Is the second generation really "alive" and coming back to teach the (not so omnipotent) 3rd Gens a lesson? Or what do you think how 5th Edition will go forward with the metaplot.

    Realliy looking forward to all your input

  • #2
    I'm very curious how the Tremere/Saulot thing will turn out. Apparently the Diary confirms that Tremere did grab Goratrix's body and destroy the antitribu (as in TC4), but unlike in TC4 it seems Saulot did not leave Vienna and Etrius is following his orders (why? I mean Etrius KNOWS this is not Tremere since he's the one who "carried" him to Goratrix? Did Saulot manage to blood bond him when Etrius came back to Vienna to check on his officially staked body? Or did the diablerie of so many salubri create a bond that allows Saulot to control him without the need to blood bond him?). So parts of TC4 are canon but others aren't?

    The thing that bugs me with this story is how important KoTE is and honestly, I despise the compulsory crossover, so the whole "there's two Saulots because KoTE bullshit" annoys me.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kalendeer View Post
      I'm very curious how the Tremere/Saulot thing will turn out. Apparently the Diary confirms that Tremere did grab Goratrix's body and destroy the antitribu (as in TC4), but unlike in TC4 it seems Saulot did not leave Vienna and Etrius is following his orders (why? I mean Etrius KNOWS this is not Tremere since he's the one who "carried" him to Goratrix? Did Saulot manage to blood bond him when Etrius came back to Vienna to check on his officially staked body? Or did the diablerie of so many salubri create a bond that allows Saulot to control him without the need to blood bond him?). So parts of TC4 are canon but others aren't?

      The thing that bugs me with this story is how important KoTE is and honestly, I despise the compulsory crossover, so the whole "there's two Saulots because KoTE bullshit" annoys me.
      I didn't read it that way. Rather, I saw it that Saulot, desperate to transcend his curse, basically cleaved himself in two. One half is his human half, the other his insatiable Beast. If that's the true secret to Golconda, it's terrifying, and far more interesting than vampire nirvana.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post

        I didn't read it that way. Rather, I saw it that Saulot, desperate to transcend his curse, basically cleaved himself in two. One half is his human half, the other his insatiable Beast. If that's the true secret to Golconda, it's terrifying, and far more interesting than vampire nirvana.

        I read it as Saulot's offers of Golconda are fundimentally bullshit. Its his game in the Jyhad. That doesn't mean the promise isn't legitimate just he's abusing the promise for power.

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        • #5
          Btw, who is that "Master of Ravens" guy who speaks to the crows in front of Hunedoaras Castle? Is there any OOC Info on him?

          And: Could anyone clarify to me what happened to Malkav? Did he dissolve into the Madness Network or did something else happen to him?
          Last edited by Marcus Meridian; 02-12-2018, 09:58 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post

            I didn't read it that way. Rather, I saw it that Saulot, desperate to transcend his curse, basically cleaved himself in two. One half is his human half, the other his insatiable Beast. If that's the true secret to Golconda, it's terrifying, and far more interesting than vampire nirvana.
            There's definitly KoTE's stuffs in there since the only NPCs who will speak about it will use KoTE's concepts, so if you don't like that splat you are bound to either ignore canon or swallow it :/ I am not interested in reading KoTE and neither are my players and fellow ST, so we just agreed not to know.

            And if the half still in Vienna is supposed to be his Beast, then it's a very intelligent one compared to most others. Also why the worm? Where does it come from? How do we actually end up with two Saulots?

            Anyway, I'm used to Saulot being this character with so much contradictory pieces in his background and overly complicated branches (the Watchers, please no, why does this bloodline even exist) so I just cleave half his background off. But Etrius is actually my favorite NPC and I was kind of sad that the part about him was contradictory with TC.

            Also the line "Etrius baths in the worm's blood". And now I have the picture of him in a giant bathtube filled with vitae and a little yellow duck floating on it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post

              I didn't read it that way. Rather, I saw it that Saulot, desperate to transcend his curse, basically cleaved himself in two. One half is his human half, the other his insatiable Beast. If that's the true secret to Golconda, it's terrifying, and far more interesting than vampire nirvana.



              Matthew Dawkins
              In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lian View Post


                I read it as Saulot's offers of Golconda are fundimentally bullshit. Its his game in the Jyhad. That doesn't mean the promise isn't legitimate just he's abusing the promise for power.
                Oh, I agree that it might exist. But then, if I'm in the mood, so might becoming human again if it's the right sort of game. It's going to be rare though.

                As for the Worm: yeah, that's the part I see as the Beast. Sure, in KotE terms it's a P'o. But the Beast exists in VTM, and Saulot *isn't* a Wan Kuei, no matter how much he tries to be. You don't have to use KotE terms to describe it.

                But also, though, the Worm is part of Tzimisce. Again, it's very much embedded in VTM lore.

                And as for Toast of London (GIF above): I love that show!
                Last edited by adambeyoncelowe; 02-13-2018, 05:55 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post

                  Oh, I agree that it might exist. But then, if I'm the mood, so might becoming human again if it's the right sort of game. It's going to be rare though.

                  As for the Worm: yeah, that's the part I see as the Beast. Sure, in KotE terms it's a P'o. But the Beast exists in VTM, and Saulot *isn't* a Wan Kuei, no matter how much he tries to be. You don't have to use KotE terms to describe it.

                  But also, though, the Worm is part of Tzimisce. Again, it's very much embedded in VTM lore.

                  And as for Toast of London (GIF above): I love that show!
                  Consider Saulot both Ray and Bill bloody Purchase.


                  Matthew Dawkins
                  In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

                    Consider Saulot both Ray and Bill bloody Purchase.
                    Acutaaaaalllyy....
                    KoTE have a little "rule", hidden on a top of a page that says: Salubri kindred have the option to 'awaken' their beast to be P'o and start their Dharmic jurney :3
                    (Not to mention Saulot was somewhat a Devil-Tigerish philsophy when spawned the Baali - you pitiy humans playing the big baaad and eeeebil? I will show you EVIL, with a capital E! I AM the evil you never be, that makes the Yama Kings tremble! )

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                    • #11
                      Most likely not. TC4's tablets are pretty suspect, and we only actually get to see the very hastily translated version by two totally unbias individuals.

                      Considering what later happens in Gehenna, I see it as an attempt to keep Tzimisce from returning to play (by taking over both Tremere and the entire Tremere Clan). That is why the real Tremere, as one of his last real acts destroyed the Tremere Antitribu.

                      It makes perfect sense that the Tablets where actually speaking of Tzimisce, who did rise, who is very likely to have created the Baali, (forced the mortals to merge flesh), and has always saught to become something greater than a Cainite Vampire.

                      Saulot ultimately failed with his self sacrifice, but was at least able to hold Tzimisce somewhat at bay.

                      The Kuei-Jin are also notably, (purposefully) arrogant and intolerant. For all of their enlightenment, they suffer from pretty extreme tunnel vision and black and white thinking, and it's not difficult to see how a Cainite, who doesn't follow their same natural laws, could easily throw their entire ethical idiology into question, and they might rather hide their failures rather than risk it all being shown as false. Just saying.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Shadeprowler View Post

                        Acutaaaaalllyy....
                        KoTE have a little "rule", hidden on a top of a page that says: Salubri kindred have the option to 'awaken' their beast to be P'o and start their Dharmic jurney :3

                        Do you have a reference for this? I would like to have a read.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zeke Hubris View Post


                          Do you have a reference for this? I would like to have a read.
                          Blood & Silk pg158

                          This one is not a 100% fact, just "rumors"
                          I think there is something burried deep in the companion (or herressies of the way?) but I don't have all my books with me at the moment, will try to find something more concrete
                          But these "rumors" are a good start :3 (Chi'iu Muh is the key here, Veleren/Obeah is Saulot/Zao-Lat stolen-, almost the same-version of the Wan Kuei Discipline after all)

                          Last edited by Shadeprowler; 02-19-2018, 08:16 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Well, those Alastors were brave. Like four year olds who jump into a tiger pit with nerf bats to catch the tiger are brave. Although said four-years olds probably have a much better chance of winning.

                            Second generation? If Zillah has been turned to stone and Enoch was in torpor, exactly what was that whole brouhaha with the slaying of the second generation about? Only Irad is unaccounted for. The whole clan curses thing was just about him? I don't buy it. Of course if that was Enoch, it is quite possible he is lagging badly in the power department after ten thousand years of torpor. Theres going to be an Antediluvian feeding frenzy if that gets out.
                            I'd lean more in the direction of some forgotten Antediluvian, or something Caine wanted to keep buried. The Crone maybe.

                            NOT a fan of the whole blood inversion thing, but I like the cyclical Gehenna.

                            Not sure whats up with Castle Ombro. I was hoping we'd get more on Montano, Lasombra etc but it just got more convoluted.

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                            • #15
                              One of the things I would have loved in the Diary (that didn't happen).

                              There's a scene in the Journal where the Master of Crows call many Kindred to him. There are several Salubri and several Tremeres there, and for one moment I believed those characters could actually get along. I mean, those young Tremeres, when the Master try to push everyone toward eating them, clamor they are much younger than the salubri progrom and innocent of that. And then for some reasons they start attacking the Salubri because the Master of Crows keep pushing, despite the Salubri not attacking.

                              I would have been SO happy had this attack not happened. If the Tremere and Salubri there had just said "fuck you" and started to talk. House Tremere is crumbling, Saulot is rising and may not be kind to his clan (which clan ?). I would have loved to see a coterie of Tremere/Salubri created that night to make something new out of this mess.

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