Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Questions about V20 Dark Ages Companion

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Questions about V20 Dark Ages Companion

    Hello! I recently purchased this book and got some questions about Streamlined Combat:

    Time, Initiative, and Actions p. 127

    1. As I understand, players used to declare actions in inverse order of initiative and then resolve them in the order of initiative, allowing faster characters to act ahead of their slower counterparts.
    Under the Streamlined Combat System, do players declare and resolve their actions one by one in order of initiative?

    2. The system states that players on the same initiative number act simultaneously. Does this mean that 2 enemy characters act at the same time even if the actions of one of them kills the other?


    Tagging, Delaying, Interrupting, and Reacting p. 127

    1. Reacting: A character executing a defensive maneuver to an earlier attack in the order of initiative uses up his standard action unless he declares multiple actions when her turn comes up?


    Time and Actions p. 128

    1. Does "moving at jogging speed or less" not consume a standard action?


    Damage and Soak p. 128-129

    1. If a Vampire receives only 1 level of Bashing damage after taking the Hardened rating and Soak rating into account, does the attack still deal damage? Or would it be cut in half and rounded down and deal 0 damage?


    I'm dming a political and intrigue based story, but my players wanted more action and combat scenes. I'm trying to make it as smooth as possible and Streamlined Combat seems to be the best option for our table. I'm sorry if these questions are basic or nonsensical, and I greatly appreciate your help and feedback!

  • #2
    Initiative and Actions:

    1) You declare when you go, instead of doing it in two stages. Yes. this means you do not necessarily know what other people are going to do if you go before them.

    2) Yes. If one combatant dies, they still resolve their actions. It is possible for two people to kill each other this way. This actually simulates a very common occurrence in weapon-based close combat.

    Tagging, etc:

    1) You declare you are using multiple actions when you are called on to act, even if out of initiative order, such as when you must decide to dodge or parry an attack. So if you are attacked before your action, you can declare your dodge is part of multiple actions, then resolve the rest when they come up.

    Time and Actions:

    1) You move at jogging speed without using an action. Hustling counts as one of your multiple actions, so you are penalized for subsequent actions accordingly, even though hustling doesn't involve rolling dice.

    Damage and Soak:

    1) Yes, you'd end up taking 0 damage.


    Writer, Game Designer, Pro since 99.

    Thoughts at mobunited.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you so much, Malcolm! This clarifies everything! <3

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry for the double post, but I got a new question! Under the Streamlined Combat system, damage and soak are no longer rolled. How do you factor in the "activation" of Potence and Fortitude? Specifically, I mean spending a blood point to turn Potence/Fortitude dice into successes for an action/turn.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think that is factored into the Streamlined combat.
          But if there were dice after the streamlined soak, potence could turn them into autos.

          Comment


          • #6
            Easy way is to double the bonus. So normally you add Potence to your damage, if you spend a blood point you instead add Potencex2. Same deal for Fortitude and soak.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by El Dome View Post
              Sorry for the double post, but I got a new question! Under the Streamlined Combat system, damage and soak are no longer rolled. How do you factor in the "activation" of Potence and Fortitude? Specifically, I mean spending a blood point to turn Potence/Fortitude dice into successes for an action/turn.
              Rules for Fortitude are in the section, increasing your soak ratings as noted, and indirectly increasing your Hardened rating. Remember, if you soak all damage but the damage before soak was higher than Hardened, you still suffer 1 level of damage.

              Potence should simply inflict +1 damage per dot when activated. This does reduce Potence's relative power, but in testing this wasn't much of a problem, since Potence is more efficient than burning blood on Strength at 2 dots and higher. If you want Potence to be more buff, declare that each dot lowers the target's Hardened rating by 1. This means that someone with a Potence of 3 vs someone with 6 Soak (and 3 Hardened) always inflicts a HL of damage anyway.


              Writer, Game Designer, Pro since 99.

              Thoughts at mobunited.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Malcolm View Post
                Potence should simply inflict +1 damage per dot when activated. This does reduce Potence's relative power, but in testing this wasn't much of a problem, since Potence is more efficient than burning blood on Strength at 2 dots and higher. If you want Potence to be more buff, declare that each dot lowers the target's Hardened rating by 1. This means that someone with a Potence of 3 vs someone with 6 Soak (and 3 Hardened) always inflicts a HL of damage anyway.
                Is that in the companion book to present a page to players?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just found out about the streamlined rules from this thread and just read through them. Considering I just had a 3 hour long combat last session (and its not over yet), this is very interesting to me.

                  I do have a few questions of my own.

                  Initiative:
                  Alice 15
                  Bob 12
                  Cecile 8

                  1) Alice tries to attack Bob. Bob can now declare he wants to dodge, and either give up his action, or use the multiple actions rule and split the pools?

                  2) Cecile now tries to attack Alice. Alice already went though. Can't she try to dodge now? (That seems like the opposite of the original rules, where the faster characters could more easily dodge attacks from slower ones)

                  3) Tagging: So Alice tags Cecile on the first turn. Cecile's initiative changes to 15 and Alices to 14, correct? On the second turn Cecile could now tag Bob, and both Alice and Cecile have 14 now while Bob is at 15? Or would Alice's and Cecile's initiative return to the original 15 and 8 at the start of turn 2?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Illithid View Post

                    Is that in the companion book to present a page to players?

                    Rules for Fortitude are in the book on p. 129 under the rules for soaking damage. Potence was an omission, but works the way I noted if you simply use the rules as written. I wrote that chapter, so my suggestion comes from hands-on knowledge of the material.


                    Writer, Game Designer, Pro since 99.

                    Thoughts at mobunited.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Quatar View Post
                      Just found out about the streamlined rules from this thread and just read through them. Considering I just had a 3 hour long combat last session (and its not over yet), this is very interesting to me.

                      I do have a few questions of my own.

                      Initiative:
                      Alice 15
                      Bob 12
                      Cecile 8

                      1) Alice tries to attack Bob. Bob can now declare he wants to dodge, and either give up his action, or use the multiple actions rule and split the pools?

                      2) Cecile now tries to attack Alice. Alice already went though. Can't she try to dodge now? (That seems like the opposite of the original rules, where the faster characters could more easily dodge attacks from slower ones)

                      3) Tagging: So Alice tags Cecile on the first turn. Cecile's initiative changes to 15 and Alices to 14, correct? On the second turn Cecile could now tag Bob, and both Alice and Cecile have 14 now while Bob is at 15? Or would Alice's and Cecile's initiative return to the original 15 and 8 at the start of turn 2?

                      1) Correct.

                      2) Alice should have declared she was performing multiple actions as a precaution. If she did, she can dodge. If she didn't, she can't. If Alice wanted to wait and see what would happen, she could have performed a Delay, with or without an Interrupt.

                      3) Tagging changes are lasting. Tagging rights only belong to the PC with the highest initiative count. So it is indeed possible for a group of PCs to cooperate and cluster their initiatives. However, as per point #2, Delays and knock down Initiative in a lasting fashion as well. These work together, so in a scenario where Alice wants to see what an enemy going later is going to do, she loses the ability to Tag because she drops from first position.


                      Writer, Game Designer, Pro since 99.

                      Thoughts at mobunited.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Malcolm View Post
                        Rules for Fortitude are in the book on p. 129 under the rules for soaking damage. Potence was an omission, but works the way I noted if you simply use the rules as written. I wrote that chapter, so my suggestion comes from hands-on knowledge of the material.
                        The rules on 129 seem to me like you add your Fortitude rating to every soak roll. Which makes sense, the way it's written
                        But now you could spend blood to turn them into "auto-successes" and automatically soak damage, instead of just adding to Stamina? I mean, they are already auto-successes in this system, since no dice are rolled at all, so it's just the same, and spending Blood on this just is stupid?

                        The same for Potence, which normally adds to melee damage already, and if I spend blood, does what differently exactly?

                        I think that was the question.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Malcolm View Post
                          2) Alice should have declared she was performing multiple actions as a precaution. If she did, she can dodge. If she didn't, she can't. If Alice wanted to wait and see what would happen, she could have performed a Delay, with or without an Interrupt.
                          2) Ok, see that's where I have a problem with this. In the original rules, high initiative had the advantage of knowing what the lower ones did and react to it, so you could just declare a defense there or split dice. A lower one didn't know that, and either had to split dice preemtively or use willpower to abort. Now it seems turned on its head where suddenly high initiative people have to guess whats going to happen, they might split dice pools for attacks that are never gonna happen, or they get screwed out of their defense. Delaying is an option, but it's a pretty crummy one, as you'd now sacrificed your high initiative, and again you gotta do it just on the suspicion someone's going to attack. In the end it sounds like suddenly low initiative is better.

                          I'm thinking about allowing Alice to use defense in that situation and basically use her action on the next turn for it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Quatar View Post
                            The rules on 129 seem to me like you add your Fortitude rating to every soak roll. Which makes sense, the way it's written
                            But now you could spend blood to turn them into "auto-successes" and automatically soak damage, instead of just adding to Stamina? I mean, they are already auto-successes in this system, since no dice are rolled at all, so it's just the same, and spending Blood on this just is stupid?

                            The same for Potence, which normally adds to melee damage already, and if I spend blood, does what differently exactly?

                            I think that was the question.
                            You don't roll damage or soak in the system.


                            Writer, Game Designer, Pro since 99.

                            Thoughts at mobunited.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Quatar View Post
                              2) Ok, see that's where I have a problem with this. In the original rules, high initiative had the advantage of knowing what the lower ones did and react to it, so you could just declare a defense there or split dice. A lower one didn't know that, and either had to split dice preemtively or use willpower to abort. Now it seems turned on its head where suddenly high initiative people have to guess whats going to happen, they might split dice pools for attacks that are never gonna happen, or they get screwed out of their defense. Delaying is an option, but it's a pretty crummy one, as you'd now sacrificed your high initiative, and again you gotta do it just on the suspicion someone's going to attack. In the end it sounds like suddenly low initiative is better.

                              I'm thinking about allowing Alice to use defense in that situation and basically use her action on the next turn for it.
                              The tag/interrupt/delay trio exist for a reason. The notion of knowing what someone is going to do first like that is the sort of information advantage that both slows down combat (because you have a declaration and execution phase) and doesn't really reflect the hectic struggle the system represents, where you are expected to deal with the trade off between acting first, and acting in an informed matter.

                              In any event, the system includes certain features (including the differences in how Potence and Fortitude function) for a reason, since it's based on a house system that I've run since 2002 or so. If it doesn't meet your needs, you are of course free to change it.


                              Writer, Game Designer, Pro since 99.

                              Thoughts at mobunited.com

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X