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  • Cahracters in Beckett's

    The Gentleman Gamer I'd like to ask one question today, regarding Beckett's: some characters (Anatole and Lucita, at least) met their final ends in the novels orignially, but they are up and active in the early 2000's in Beckett's. Did their story get retconned, or their comeback explained officially, and if yes, could we get the details? Are there any further plans for them in V5?

    Please, pretty please?


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  • #2
    As you can tell with a number of characters in Beckett's Jyhad Diary, we've played pretty loose with the idea of any strict timeline. I'm happy we did so, as limiting chronicles to play in a certain year if they want to interact with a certain character or clan isn't my idea of fun.

    Regarding Anatole, you've got a few options:

    - He emerged from the Cathedral of Flesh without harm.
    - His suicide via Tzimisce Antediluvian hasn't happened yet.
    - He's a psychic projection from wherever Anatole currently is (presumably the Cathedral).
    - The suicide via Tzimisce Antediluvian never happens, because the metaplot is more malleable than we were previously given to think.

    Lucita is a simpler case, as she dies in the Gehenna novel. We can assume from BJD that Gehenna hasn't happened / never happens, so she hasn't been consumed by the Lasombra Antediluvian / ascended to wherever Anatole is before the Lasombra Antediluvian can eat her. Note also that in BJD she hasn't taken her sire's place yet in the Sabbat.

    As for whether they come back in V5, I can confirm that at least one of them will be more than just mentioned in the first three books.


    Matthew Dawkins
    In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

    ~Hapax Legomenon~

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    • #3
      Thansk for the answers!

      Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
      As you can tell with a number of characters in Beckett's Jyhad Diary, we've played pretty loose with the idea of any strict timeline. I'm happy we did so, as limiting chronicles to play in a certain year if they want to interact with a certain character or clan isn't my idea of fun.
      I just assumed that since the events in the book are happening after the, say, clan novel saga and said characters are present, there might be some ideas about that, or an altered canon to be revealed later on, under V5.

      Regarding Anatole, you've got a few options:

      - He emerged from the Cathedral of Flesh without harm.
      - His suicide via Tzimisce Antediluvian hasn't happened yet.
      - He's a psychic projection from wherever Anatole currently is (presumably the Cathedral).
      - The suicide via Tzimisce Antediluvian never happens, because the metaplot is more malleable than we were previously given to think.
      Hmm. The firstand third are definitely interesting options. The second and fourth, well, I'm not against playing fast and loose with the metaplot at the table, but I prefer to see an internal consistency in the official version of the events. At some level, I think that is what makes things like novels possible in the first place. It's also what gives the impression of a living world, in comparison to a sandbox approach. I understand Beckett's took, to a degree, more sandbox-y approach to metaplot, to be in-line with the rest of the V20 line, however.

      Note that I'm not saying Beckett's is contradictory! I'm enjoying the book tremendously and the ideas, options and bread crumbles of what to come within it! I just think "how Anatole is back" is a much interesting question than "it didn't happen". I'm okay with the canon being malleable to some point (unreliable narrator and all that), but if something happened in the fiction, in a novel, or in a short story in a game book, I prefer that to be happened like it was written, since we effectively witnessed it happening.

      Lucita is a simpler case, as she dies in the Gehenna novel. We can assume from BJD that Gehenna hasn't happened / never happens, so she hasn't been consumed by the Lasombra Antediluvian / ascended to wherever Anatole is before the Lasombra Antediluvian can eat her. Note also that in BJD she hasn't taken her sire's place yet in the Sabbat.
      Ah, okay, I somehow remembered like she died in the lasombra trilogy's end. My bad, I read it a long time ago.

      I'm quite thrilled at the possibility of her going for regency and what changes it could bring to the Sabbat!* Honestly, I like both of them to be back, as mentioned, how Anatole is back has a lot of interesting potential and Lucita's movements too! Also, to be fair, I never ha the animosity toward signature characters and metplot some people harbor actively and with passion. I get that it could be highly annoying in an official adventure, if the players are just playing supporting cast to the NPCs and I understand that the big Vampire chronicles were especially bad at this here and there. However signature characters and official plot is good, IMO, because it makes the setting more reletable, gives sympathetic characters fans could be excited about, gives the impression of a living setting, gives material for stuff one could interact with the setting through, outside of actual playing, like novels and comics, etc. Essentially, it increases the avenues for fan buy-in considerably.

      As for whether they come back in V5, I can confirm that at least one of them will be more than just mentioned in the first three books.
      Yippiiii!

      *and that and talking about Lucita reminded me: I've read the interview with Jason and Martin in the CrazyBitch magazine about V5 aaaaand. Okay, most of them wasn't new, at this point. But I'm getting more and more curious about what you folks really want to do with the Sabbat.

      I get that they want to refocus Vampire on the social aspect and Sabbat was always the more violent side of the game. I get that they want to refocus on the Anarchs vs. Camarilla conflict (and thus, not putting the Sabbat into the core and among the initial setting books) and honestly, I like that/okay with that. The grave-wars plot is, IMO, quite good and interesting.

      However, if that means that the Sabbat will be totally absent from the Americas and Europe, all their old domains abandoned and effectively written out from the core setting as is, well, I think that would be a tremendous loss to the game and setting and I'm not even a Sabbat fan. I just believe that they are a very important and distinct element of Vampire as a whole.

      Jason talked about some possibilities of the Cam wanting to deal with the Sabbat, through using mortal agencies and that leading to the second inqusition, after said agencies were done with the Sabbat and thus leading to the Cam clossing the doors and turning against the anarchs as scapegoats. Well, I don't know how developed those ideas are, at this point, but... Okay, a lot of it will depend on the actual details, as always, as history is anything but logical frequently. It's possible one thing leading to another and ending up there. I'm just not seeing, at this point, how and why the Cam would do that? It seems a bit forced to write off the Sabbat from the map like that (and I don't think they should be written off the map in the first place), but I don't want to judge preemptively.

      I could imagine the Sabbat, just like the Camarilla, struggling against the second inqusition and other outward threats, while a lot of them are goint to the Middle-East, following the fires of the Gehenna crusade. The combination of the two could lead it to be more insular and the sect wars going more into cold-war and some guerilla/reconnaisance territory, than the open hostilities of the turn of the millenium. I could play with something like that, totally, but I'd like the Sabbat (and the independents too) to remain present.



      If nothing worked, then let's think!

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