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  • So should I pre-order V5?

    So, V5, I'm a little torn on that one. On the one hand, there are a lot of things I'm looking forward to. Moving the metaplot forward, seeing what has happened to the clans and how they transition in the 21st century. I was looking forward to a shake-up of the Tremere and more access to blood magic (like in Requiem), but sadly all arcane lore will be concentrated on them again. But in any case, metaplot and lore are two huge reasons.

    Gameplay wise, from what I've seen, I'm intrigued by the hunger dice. Generally I don't like the idea of the personal horror element being forced on players, mostly because it becomes more and more irrelevant as a chronicles gets longer. I've heard of chronicles that have lasted a year, where characters have accumulated truly an astonishing level of power and connection, and have reached a point of low but functioning humanity where their characters are, in many ways, free of the worst burdens of vamprirism. That's when the power play begins. With the hunger dice I see a nice and very thematic reminder that, in the end, we do roleplay as Kindred, and I really enjoy the level of risk they bring with the messy criticals. I was particularly intrigued to imagine how a Salubri healer could score a critical mess when using obeah, or how a Tremere would research an occult tome messily. It could lead to some very bizarre and hillarious situations and in a way that sounds fun. And then we get to humanity, touchstonnes and compulsions.

    The compulsions mechanic that goes with hunger sounds.... clunky. It ensures that as Kindred inevitably get hungrier, their behavior is shaped by this hunger. Sounds poetic and dark in theory, and very tedious and restricting in practice. Ok, so for the first few sessions - great, I get to roleplay the struggles of being a Kindred. After session 7, however, I would imagine it would get a bit cumbersome and quite frankly - annoying. So, my character has not build a strong enough willpower and is not disciplined enough because he always, always is affected by these compulsions? I cannot resist them, they do not scale or are not mitigated by willpower? Why do I always have to roleplay a compulsions if I have entirely different plans on how I want to roleplay the behavior of my Kindred?

    Then we get to touchstones. Oh, touchstones. In theory, again, sound great for neonate vampires. They keep you humane, remind you human values, all great. But what if I make an ancilla that really doesn't care about the affairs of kine and finds more stability and "humanity" in fellow Kindred than in kine? What if I don't want to constantly babysit by touchstones because otherwise I would be penalized with automatically losing humanity? Why is this forced on me, actually, when it could have been a background and a supporting stat to degeneracy rolls, for example (that would make more sense). And why do I lose humanity, at any level, if I embrace kine? What if I am saving the kine's life out of love or mercy or sheer potential?

    I know the alpha is not the finished product, but the mechanics, and in particular compulsions, touchstones and humanity, felt really forced and suitable only for neonate characters, and only really in the beginning parts of a chronicle. While I appreciate the effort to bring back the personal horror element, the exploration of this theme is really not something I want to do during the entire chronicle, you know? Like, yes, I get it, I'm a vampire now, I'm hungry. Let's move on.

    So, with these fears I'm really, really now sure where V5 is going, and I really don't know if it would be worth my money (in print). I'm really wondering whether to just get the PDF and see if I like it, or to pre-order the ancilla bundle and hope for the best. But then again, I'm still tempted and I have (some) hope that they have substantially revised these mechanics.

    So, what would you guys advice?

  • #2
    It's $50 bucks. If you have that money lying around and would use it for other entertainment, buy it in hopes of supporting a product line you hope to continue even if you just use the lore updates (where I'm currently sitting)

    If you don't have that money lying around, and some good people don't, wait. Wait for the reviews, wait to grab a physical copy in a bookstore and peruse it, wait until other people have digested it and can give actual opinions based on having it in their hands and not hype.

    The broad strokes of the lore will be in a wiki within a few weeks of release and the pdf version will probably be $20-30

    Comment


    • #3
      I would say absolutely not.


      Call me Regina or Lex.

      Female pronouns for me, please.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dobyk View Post
        So, V5, I'm a little torn on that one. On the one hand, there are a lot of things I'm looking forward to. Moving the metaplot forward, seeing what has happened to the clans and how they transition in the 21st century. I was looking forward to a shake-up of the Tremere and more access to blood magic (like in Requiem), but sadly all arcane lore will be concentrated on them again. But in any case, metaplot and lore are two huge reasons.

        Gameplay wise, from what I've seen, I'm intrigued by the hunger dice. Generally I don't like the idea of the personal horror element being forced on players, mostly because it becomes more and more irrelevant as a chronicles gets longer. I've heard of chronicles that have lasted a year, where characters have accumulated truly an astonishing level of power and connection, and have reached a point of low but functioning humanity where their characters are, in many ways, free of the worst burdens of vamprirism. That's when the power play begins. With the hunger dice I see a nice and very thematic reminder that, in the end, we do roleplay as Kindred, and I really enjoy the level of risk they bring with the messy criticals. I was particularly intrigued to imagine how a Salubri healer could score a critical mess when using obeah, or how a Tremere would research an occult tome messily. It could lead to some very bizarre and hillarious situations and in a way that sounds fun. And then we get to humanity, touchstonnes and compulsions.

        The compulsions mechanic that goes with hunger sounds.... clunky. It ensures that as Kindred inevitably get hungrier, their behavior is shaped by this hunger. Sounds poetic and dark in theory, and very tedious and restricting in practice. Ok, so for the first few sessions - great, I get to roleplay the struggles of being a Kindred. After session 7, however, I would imagine it would get a bit cumbersome and quite frankly - annoying. So, my character has not build a strong enough willpower and is not disciplined enough because he always, always is affected by these compulsions? I cannot resist them, they do not scale or are not mitigated by willpower? Why do I always have to roleplay a compulsions if I have entirely different plans on how I want to roleplay the behavior of my Kindred?

        Then we get to touchstones. Oh, touchstones. In theory, again, sound great for neonate vampires. They keep you humane, remind you human values, all great. But what if I make an ancilla that really doesn't care about the affairs of kine and finds more stability and "humanity" in fellow Kindred than in kine? What if I don't want to constantly babysit by touchstones because otherwise I would be penalized with automatically losing humanity? Why is this forced on me, actually, when it could have been a background and a supporting stat to degeneracy rolls, for example (that would make more sense). And why do I lose humanity, at any level, if I embrace kine? What if I am saving the kine's life out of love or mercy or sheer potential?

        I know the alpha is not the finished product, but the mechanics, and in particular compulsions, touchstones and humanity, felt really forced and suitable only for neonate characters, and only really in the beginning parts of a chronicle. While I appreciate the effort to bring back the personal horror element, the exploration of this theme is really not something I want to do during the entire chronicle, you know? Like, yes, I get it, I'm a vampire now, I'm hungry. Let's move on.

        So, with these fears I'm really, really now sure where V5 is going, and I really don't know if it would be worth my money (in print). I'm really wondering whether to just get the PDF and see if I like it, or to pre-order the ancilla bundle and hope for the best. But then again, I'm still tempted and I have (some) hope that they have substantially revised these mechanics.

        So, what would you guys advice?

        I'd say hold on for a bit. The preorders will be up until the books start shipping in August. A lot of us are expecting another 'final preview release' later this month, since they said they're going to have a showing of it at PDXcon.

        Comment


        • #5
          There will be an option to get just the pdfs so...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Vendrin View Post
            It's $50 bucks. If you have that money lying around and would use it for other entertainment, buy it in hopes of supporting a product line you hope to continue even if you just use the lore updates (where I'm currently sitting)

            If you don't have that money lying around, and some good people don't, wait. Wait for the reviews, wait to grab a physical copy in a bookstore and peruse it, wait until other people have digested it and can give actual opinions based on having it in their hands and not hype.

            The broad strokes of the lore will be in a wiki within a few weeks of release and the pdf version will probably be $20-30

            That's very true. I could afford a pre-order, but I'm not entirely convinced it would be a wise investment. The only thing I'm concerned about is that if I wanted to purchase those bundles after the pre-order prices would be higher, although perhaps some folks might be reselling theirs. When are we getting a preview this month?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dobyk View Post


              That's very true. I could afford a pre-order, but I'm not entirely convinced it would be a wise investment. The only thing I'm concerned about is that if I wanted to purchase those bundles after the pre-order prices would be higher, although perhaps some folks might be reselling theirs. When are we getting a preview this month?

              It's not for sure, but most of us are expecting it. It happened after the last 2 conventions, there was material released about a week after. PDXcon is May 18-20, so I'd expect about month end if we're getting one.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wallet grinder. Prices hurt my eyes. Sadly (or not) Witcher and Wrath and glory are coming and both might be cheaper then V5. I wanted to buy it but prices... sad.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am personally intrigued by the setting as they described it and think that the announcements in regards of mechanics (Hunger Circle, Loresheets, The Memoriam) are intriguing.
                  In regards of the price tag, unless you go for whistle and bells, I do personally consider it quite affordable.
                  In regards of a comparing it to other products, it is for example more affordable than D&D 5E.

                  In regards of the V5 I ran both playtests several times and had a mostly good time.

                  Next to my personal fandom in regards of VtM, which lead me to drop a vast amount of money on the pre-order, I would advice in favor of the pre-order as it will get you the books more early opposed to buying it from a shelf. It might be interesting to know that if you create an account at Modiphius via a referral-link you will be able to save 10% upon your first purchase. I would provide you with a link in this text, yet I don't know if it is against any board rules.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes, you should but not just yet. Wait a bit more probably after the 18th of May we will have more info about the rules and stuff since V5 will be displayed on a convention in Stockholm.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It's £39.99. Vampire hasn't been that cheap in a decade. At least not for me. And it's going to be a much more durable print product than the cheaper PODs are. I can't afford to buy everything if I won't like it, but I've bought the core book so that I can consume it and mull it over. Besides, I'm a completist.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm torn. Vampire has been hands down one of my all time favorite games but I have a really had time justifying spending money on something just for genre. As it is I held out on Requiem for years until I found a few in used book stores and others were given to me for free. I never found a use for them outside of artwork.

                        Just what I've seen of the rules so far I'm not a fan. And while the argument of "well there are PDFs.." isn't exactly unsound in it's reasoning, I have always preferred hard copy for all of my books


                        Lost Tribes Gaming: Shadow of the Phoenix: Sabbat 2nd and 4th Sundays 2pm PST to 6pm (-7GMT)
                        Street Fighter: Generation Next 2nd and 4th Friday nights 8 pm PST to 12:00am (-7GMT)
                        http://www.twitch.tv/losttribesgaming.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dobyk View Post
                          So, V5, I'm a little torn on that one. On the one hand, there are a lot of things I'm looking forward to. Moving the metaplot forward, seeing what has happened to the clans and how they transition in the 21st century. I was looking forward to a shake-up of the Tremere and more access to blood magic (like in Requiem), but sadly all arcane lore will be concentrated on them again. But in any case, metaplot and lore are two huge reasons.

                          Gameplay wise, from what I've seen, I'm intrigued by the hunger dice. Generally I don't like the idea of the personal horror element being forced on players, mostly because it becomes more and more irrelevant as a chronicles gets longer. I've heard of chronicles that have lasted a year, where characters have accumulated truly an astonishing level of power and connection, and have reached a point of low but functioning humanity where their characters are, in many ways, free of the worst burdens of vamprirism. That's when the power play begins. With the hunger dice I see a nice and very thematic reminder that, in the end, we do roleplay as Kindred, and I really enjoy the level of risk they bring with the messy criticals. I was particularly intrigued to imagine how a Salubri healer could score a critical mess when using obeah, or how a Tremere would research an occult tome messily. It could lead to some very bizarre and hillarious situations and in a way that sounds fun. And then we get to humanity, touchstonnes and compulsions.

                          The compulsions mechanic that goes with hunger sounds.... clunky. It ensures that as Kindred inevitably get hungrier, their behavior is shaped by this hunger. Sounds poetic and dark in theory, and very tedious and restricting in practice. Ok, so for the first few sessions - great, I get to roleplay the struggles of being a Kindred. After session 7, however, I would imagine it would get a bit cumbersome and quite frankly - annoying. So, my character has not build a strong enough willpower and is not disciplined enough because he always, always is affected by these compulsions? I cannot resist them, they do not scale or are not mitigated by willpower? Why do I always have to roleplay a compulsions if I have entirely different plans on how I want to roleplay the behavior of my Kindred?

                          Then we get to touchstones. Oh, touchstones. In theory, again, sound great for neonate vampires. They keep you humane, remind you human values, all great. But what if I make an ancilla that really doesn't care about the affairs of kine and finds more stability and "humanity" in fellow Kindred than in kine? What if I don't want to constantly babysit by touchstones because otherwise I would be penalized with automatically losing humanity? Why is this forced on me, actually, when it could have been a background and a supporting stat to degeneracy rolls, for example (that would make more sense). And why do I lose humanity, at any level, if I embrace kine? What if I am saving the kine's life out of love or mercy or sheer potential?

                          I know the alpha is not the finished product, but the mechanics, and in particular compulsions, touchstones and humanity, felt really forced and suitable only for neonate characters, and only really in the beginning parts of a chronicle. While I appreciate the effort to bring back the personal horror element, the exploration of this theme is really not something I want to do during the entire chronicle, you know? Like, yes, I get it, I'm a vampire now, I'm hungry. Let's move on.

                          So, with these fears I'm really, really now sure where V5 is going, and I really don't know if it would be worth my money (in print). I'm really wondering whether to just get the PDF and see if I like it, or to pre-order the ancilla bundle and hope for the best. But then again, I'm still tempted and I have (some) hope that they have substantially revised these mechanics.

                          So, what would you guys advice?
                          I ordered the three-book slipcase version, but I'm not on a tight budget.

                          I agree with your reservations about the system changes. V20 and DA20 were all about expanding player choices. V5, so far, has more of a "You aren't playing this right. This is how you're supposed to do it" vibe.

                          My preferred style of play emphasizes mystery, conspiracy, and relationships that have evolved over centuries - George Smiley with fangs, you might say, rather than superheroes with fangs. The disappearance of the elders worries me slightly in that regard. How far are WW planning to year-zero-ize things, and how much background will be lost as a result? I get that a few less Methuselahs and centuries-old elders will give the player characters a more level playing field and thus be a net positive. But I hope they won't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

                          On the other hand, if BJD really is a prequel of sorts to V5 - as WW have suggested on their site and the involvement of BJD's developer hopefully augurs - then V5 may well end up enhancing and expanding the existing background, rather than taking away from it. The initial blurbs look extremely interesting. I'm unfamiliar with most of the contributors, but Dawkins' track record is impressive, and Rein-Hagen started the entire thing. I am hopeful that, for all my worries, I'll find a lot in the new edition to enjoy.

                          Is it worth it? Only you can say. For me, the answer is yes. But others may feel differently.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm in it for the PDF and the dice, as I don't purchase physical books anymore. I will buy the fuck outta that PDF, though. And the dice.

                            And any other cool merchandise they want to offer(board games, shirts, etc.) as long as it doesn't contain any of the recent "art" they've shown.


                            PENTEX SUCKS.

                            I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dobyk View Post
                              And why do I lose humanity, at any level, if I embrace kine? What if I am saving the kine's life out of love or mercy or sheer potential?
                              A bit off-topic on that particular comment. In Requiem 2, losing humanity for an embrace is justified as creating another murderer. Someone else who will spend eternity hungry and feeding on humanity. Even in the current Masquerade games, I handle the Embrace at least as deliberate murder, and depending on circumstances as most heneious and demented act violating humanity 1. You aren't really saving their life or potential. You are turning another human being into a monster like you. Vampire fiction is full of these motivations turning out to be full-blown mistakes. So, yes, personally I think automatically losing a dot of humanity is fitting.

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