Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Paths and the Sabbat in 5e

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Teylen View Post
    I don't think it is a good example.
    D&D looks and plays quite differently between all editions.
    There are significant shifts between 1E edition and 3E edition, between 3E and 3.5E and between 3E and 5E.
    The only difference that 4E makes was that there has been a more significant uproar to the changes.
    I don't agree. I can only speak as to the editions I've played, but having gone from playing 3.5, to 4e, to 5e (with a little Pathfinder)? 4e feels much more of a shift in how you are to play compared to the others. Not to deny there aren't serious adjustments between editions otherwise (no question that 3.5 does differ from 5e), but I don't think it fair to say they are all equivalent.

    There is no scenario that I can see or imagine in which V5 wouldn't create a split.
    There'll always be people that see any change that derivatives from the Onyx Path releases as heresy.
    Yet, there are ways to mitigate such a split. If they had gone from 3.5 straight to what 5e is? A lot less players end up disenfranchised.

    Comment


    • #77
      Exactly, D&D 3.5 to 4th was more akin to VtM revised to VtR. This is more like 3.5 to 5e

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Ben Linus View Post
        That would make most of the canon stop making sense and would make the idea of a cheap gehenna to have happened before the V5.
        I don't see how an approach, in regards to the Hunger circle, in which they say:
        "It has always been like this, but wasn't addressed.
        The focus of the stories have had been placed differently, the characters just didn't mention it or weren't busy with it."
        Would invalidate the canon as is.
        You could continue to either write stories within the setting as it has been before.
        You could as well write stories that does take newly introduced elements into account.

        Next to the aspect that there had been bigger changes. Like when the setting went from "Gangrel can disguise within Werewolves and buddy up" (2nd) towards "Vampire and Werewolves are on a kill-on-sight relationship status and no way a Gangrel could hide in a pack" (2nd rev). Which is imho a bigger change than the Hunger circle.
        But the most worrying thing is that it would completely kill the already crumbling interesting projects like Brujah Chronicles or A Lonely Road
        I might be missing something, but the Brujah Chronicles is a scenario book that got abandoned in 2004?
        I don't see any reasonable cause to pine for projects that are dead for more than a decade.

        They could do an interesting, cool Brujah chronicle or source books about nomadic kindred?
        It further disturbs the idea of releasing transitional fictions from the fourth to the fifth edition which would be a golden egg hen for publisher.
        You can publish almost all the fiction that you want on the storytellers vault.
        A licensed publisher could publish a lot of engaging fiction set in the metaplot?
        Which apparently has stuff coming like the formation of a second inquisition, a Ghenna war, an upturned power structure and more.

        Comment


        • #79
          Darking Skies returned after a cancellation. And the Dark Ages line was okay, just lacking more supplements, I do not think I need a review after the V20 Dark Ages and bring all those elements back or sacrifice some. And that is better than nomadic members.

          And it will not be a good review if the Paths, something that is necessary for that social structure to be sacrificed in the name of a limiting system that does not dialogue with what was built before, does not bring something new back to the scenario, only demolishing what was previously built.

          On the Gangrel, you are quoting a rare and secondary option to the scenario that was never really addressed by the metaplot and saying that it has a greater impact than restructuring any vampire's vitae and starvation system. What would be a revision of the same proportion would be to say that the Camarilla Malkavians always had Dementia, but not White Wolf justified a mystical change not to invalidate the previous metaplot.

          The fictions need a retroactive change that justify the mechanical changes or the lack of dialogue with the previous rules but makes them incoherent.
          Last edited by Ben Linus; 05-15-2018, 11:51 AM.

          Comment


          • #80
            How is mechanically abstracting the bloodpool into Hunger levels something that would in any way effect the background of the setting?

            Comment


            • #81
              It's because in the Fifth Edition rule a vampire does not fall for the use of blood and becomes more subject to destruction, he only falls into short-term frenzy and has a price to pay in the long run. So how to explain the destruction of Ravnos in this context? For example. This type of rule could change the outcome of several direct combos in WoD.

              But understand me well, I am not against this rule, I like it (I do not like it is the new rule of humanity). But I think it has a retroactive impact as far as changing a discipline from a clan in my opinion. But it is a well-made rule with a lot of dramatic potential (as opposed to the new rule of humanity that kills the excellent system of formal religions that we had before).

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Elthanes View Post
                How is mechanically abstracting the bloodpool into Hunger levels something that would in any way effect the background of the setting?
                Well, for one thing, the setting of VtM includes ancient powerful elders with massive bloodpools... I think Angry Blood Gods is the usual description.

                Except, with the Hunger system, every vampire from the lowliest Caitiff straight up to urShulgi and Ennoia get hungry at the same rate, and roughly as often. And it happens, at random, during other, sometimes unrelated activity. So, the lowly Caitiff might fight off a dozen Garou with nothing but a silver butter knife, and, through very, very lucky dice rolling, not even be a little peckish. Meanwhile, Baba Yaga could get famished just from working really hard at doing a crossword puzzle, if the dice fall wrong.

                The Angry Blood Gods have fallen.
                Last edited by Nosimplehiway; 05-15-2018, 05:41 PM. Reason: fixed minor tipyng erors

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

                  Well, for one thing the setting of VtM includes ancient powerful elders with massive bloodpools... I think Angry Blood Gods is the usual description.

                  Except with the Hunger system, every vampire from the lowliest Caitiff straight up to urShulgi and Ennoia get hungry at the same rate, and roughly as often. And it happens, at random, during other, sometimes unrelated activity. So, a the lowly Caitiff might fight off a dozen Garou with nothing but a silver butter knife, and, through very, very lucky dice rolling, not even be a little peckish. Meanwhile, Baba Yaga could get famished just from working really hard at doing a crossword puzzle, if the dice fall wrong.

                  The Angry Blood Gods have fallen.
                  I'd just make a emark that since we do not know anything about how generation would work in V5, we can't say the above either.


                  If nothing worked, then let's think!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    I believe that generation will be revised.

                    For a Gehenna of respect, at least Cain must die. But it is speculation.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Wow.
                      Lots of people with crystal balls in here. Would anyone care to give me the lottery numbers for next week as well?

                      Right now, all we have are playtests, which are 10 months out of date. I can understand the fact that people are afraid and upset, but we need to chill. This is not the Holy Grail we're talking about.

                      I'm not sure we'll get something to cater to everyone, and if raving fans of Exalted are anything to go by, this is going to be an insane edition war once it drops. But I think that the Sabbat will get here. Eventually. And it will be marvelous.
                      For better or worse.

                      Will it have Requiem stuff? No one knows. Will it use the same rules? Maybe.

                      And yeah, there are a lot of people who are going to be Onyx Path Crusaders till the end, but on the other hand, I regularly run into people who are fans of VtM that haven't got the faintest idea of what OPP is.
                      Blame marketing.

                      Also, isn't DAV20 dead as a doornail since David Hill got sacked?


                      __________________________________________________
                      Preaching the enlightened gospels of Gaming Anarchy

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Ben Linus View Post
                        I believe that generation will be revised.

                        For a Gehenna of respect, at least Cain must die. But it is speculation.

                        They posited something when the first alpha came out about how Generation MIGHT work. Generation there gave a Blood Potency rating, which represented concentrated vampiric power; gen 13-10 had 0; 9th-7th had 1, 6-5 had 2, and 4th had 3. You subtracted that potency rating from the total when checking for Hunger at the end of a scene, it added to stuff for Compulsions (representing a stronger Beast) and subtract BP from the amount of Hunger lost (meaning if you WERE hungry it took more to fil up). Obviously not 100%, but a decent start.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Growls View Post
                          Wow.


                          I'm not sure we'll get something to cater to everyone, and if raving fans of Exalted are anything to go by, this is going to be an insane edition war once it drops. But I think that the Sabbat will get here. Eventually. And it will be marvelous.
                          For better or worse.

                          I believe now is the time to complain. If White Wolf is thinking about using these bad rules, a reclamation can now lead to some revision and they will get better, if they are not they will not miss anything. After launching they will not review defective parts and systems and we will have to deal with this for a long time.


                          On Hill, I think it was an immense loss to the company, his work was extraordinary and the plans he had for the continuation of the exciting V20 Dark Ages, even more so than in the Black Hand V20 he brought back to Ancient Magic based in Foundation and Pillars.


                          But I hope the publisher at least has a good sense to continue his work by filling what's still vital in the empty spaces of the setting.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Ben Linus View Post


                            I believe now is the time to complain. If White Wolf is thinking about using these bad rules, a reclamation can now lead to some revision and they will get better, if they are not they will not miss anything. After launching they will not review defective parts and systems and we will have to deal with this for a long time.


                            On Hill, I think it was an immense loss to the company, his work was extraordinary and the plans he had for the continuation of the exciting V20 Dark Ages, even more so than in the Black Hand V20 he brought back to Ancient Magic based in Foundation and Pillars.


                            But I hope the publisher at least has a good sense to continue his work by filling what's still vital in the empty spaces of the setting.

                            There's no time to make massive sweeping changes. If they're shipping in August for the core, they have ot have the text edited in June to print in July.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              We should have started to complain earlier.

                              What rules matter to you?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Ben Linus View Post
                                We should have started to complain earlier.

                                What rules matter to you?

                                I'm actually relatively alright with the rules changes we've seen in the newer alpha. I like the streamlined combat. I like Hunger. I am ambivalent towards Touchstones, as I get their purpose but they're easy enough for me to switch to 'things that tie you to Humanity to offset the monstrous urges of the Beast' if it doesn't end up written that way, I'm okay with the Discipline changes (I'm used to things like each level of the Physical Disciplines having individual effects, as a LARPer). Compulsions I feel run alright, they weren't as intrusive as a lot of people scream about. I'm okay with the Sabbat coming in another book, because it also gives WW time to develop the Sabbat's plot, since they have a huge part to play in the oncoming metaplot. There are ways to take Touchstones as a concept and use the mechanic for Paths (your vaulderie and pack, for example), but I'm withholding heavy judgement until I can see a finished product. And I really like the lore updates, there's a lot of interesting stuff to mine for new plot.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X