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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sidious View Post


    Entirely up to them/you. I like the freedom the setting gives you to play with things.
    Oh I see,thanks

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
      Thanks for the help. I'll try to incorporate the new metaphor with older editions,but I don't know what it will be exactly. So I decided to look for other options.
      I think the metaplot is mostly complete until around 2008ish with BJD. What is missing is the last 10 years, give or take a couple. But I usually run chronicles a few years behind real time. That way, I have room to skip time without skipping ahead (happened to one of my chronicles, now running in 2022 - but reality will catch-up soonish).

      Comment


      • #18
        Okay, one possible "Gehenna"... and a way to simplify some of the more Byzantine aspects of vampire society... is a mini-Gehenna, which destroys the vast majority of supernaturals, but leaves human society more or less intact. This will result in fewer vampires, in a less supernatural world.
        1. Saulot makes his move. He fully consumes Tremere's body and the bodies of the vast majority of Tremere, and anyone who has ever tasted Tremere blood. Since the Tremere antitribu took part in the vaulderie, that includes the large majority of the Sabbat. But, what was his move? Using Obeah 10, he turned them all human, to the age they would have been from their natural birth. Of course, this kills almost all of them. Any attempts at re-embrace fail.
        2. This wholesale slaughter of their childer awakens nearly all the sleeping ancients and methuselahs. They are hungry. Who do they eat? Well, weak fledglings are easiest to hunt, but stronger vampires are easier to "detect". Plus, the oldest can only survive on elders. They use stealthy means, mostly, because it is easier. Some just sit back and issue a summons while the weak-willed shuffle off to their destruction. This whole process lasts a few months, before the ancients start turning on one another.
        3. Many Antes summon their childer back to themselves for the slaughter. There are mass migrations of Tzimisce, Setites, Assamites, and Malkavians reported. What happens when they get to their elder is anyone's guess, though, since none return.
        4. Venice decides now is the time for the Endless Night. They release several small nuclear devices to a terrorist group who use them on civilian cities. (Your pick.) This provides the souls needed for the ritual. Augustus performs the ritual and the shroud, world-wide, dwindles to almost nothing. It falls most completely in the vicinity of supernatural creatures, who naturally weaken the dominant paradigm by their very presence.
        5. Spectres pour into our world. The first thing they do is settle up old scores by destroying the evil vampires who have been binding them for millennia, or any nearby supernatural creature, really. Nearly every vampire with necromancy is destroyed. Augustus himself is surprised to find the Capuchin diablerizing him. The Capuchin, of course, is possessed by Cappadocius. The shroud is down for exactly 3.14 seconds, and it ends vampiric necromancy worldwide. Guess Valentina was right.
        6. In addition, the sudden dropping of the shroud causes a Maelstrom. This releases as a massive burst of death energy around the world. Mortal demographers will later note a tremendous spike in deaths at this time, but it mostly effects those already sick, simply speeding up their passing. They assume it is a statistical glitch. Upside, the outflow of jhor equalizes pressures and allows the shroud to be easily resealed by panicked, but quick-thinking, mages.
        7. The sudden influx of jhor is particularly bad for supernatural creatures, including garou, mages, and fae. Over the next few weeks, as their bodies refuse to regenerate lost cells, they appear to suffer from a disease similar to radiation poisoning. Many KueiJin are killed outright, as their Yin energy surges to uncontrollable levels. Most other K-J get pulled back into the hell. Mortals who notice blame this all on fallout from the terrorist attacks. The vast majority of non-Vampire supernaturals die, and those who survive are changed. Nearly all are sterile, which is particularly bad for Garou. All Garou are wyrm tainted, all mages have heavy jhor, and all fae enter their Unseelie personae, etc.
        8. All this tumult manages to awaken the big kahunas. Caine and the second generation. Their first act is to eat any third gens they can find. They take advantage of the momentary slip in the shroud to pull Lilith into the physical world, where she can be attacked. They summon the most powerful Cainites from around the world to assist. Epic battle ensues on the Andaman Islands, which ends in a massive, volcanic explosion. The ash turns day into night for over a week. No one is sure who won.
        9. As the surviving Antedeluvians and Methuselehs from step 2 run out of food, they re-enter torpor.
        So, after the year or so of activity, here is the setting:
        • All major clan founders are presumed destroyed. All evidence of their activity (Malk network, Tzimisce possessions, etc.) cease.
        • Well over 99% of all supernaturals in the world are destroyed. The more powerful they were, the harder they were hit by the 3 Second Tempest, so weaker supernaturals are pretty much what's left.
        • The Sabbat and Camarilla are in complete disarray and likely not to rebuild. Oh, individual survivors may still hold habits of their previous sect (like Paths or the Traditions), but in many cases it takes months or years to find fellow sectarians. It's a rare city that greets the new year with more than two or three vampires in one city. Over the next few years, as new childer are embraced and lines of communication are reopened among survivors, a social setting more like VtDA emerges.
        • Certain clans seem to be (almost) entirely gone. Tremere and Salubri became human and then died. Tzimsice with Vicissitude became goo and joined with the Eldest, then were eaten by Caine. Rumor has it most Lasombra were sucked into the abyss during the Maelstrom. Malks with Dementation went on a pilgrimage to the Andamans to assist in the battle and seem destroyed. The Assamites also went straight into the Andamans and never came back. All vampires with Necromancy seem destroyed, ending several lines. The Setites converged on Uganda, and were eaten before Set was eaten by Tezcatlipoca. The oddest one are the Nosferatu who just... vanished.
        • Though every line was nearly depopulated, a few held on slightly better than others. The Brujah, Gangrel, Dominate Malks, Toreador, and Ventrue are known to be among survivors. Bloodlines had slightly lower excess mortality than clans, but started with so few they are nearly gone. Old Clan Tzimisce, Kiasyd, True Brujah, Tlacique, and Noiad are known to all have at least a small handful of survivors. The various Laibon and new world legacies have also been sighted. The distinction between bloodline and clan has largely been erased. World vampiric population is likely down to a few hundred, tops.
        • Other supernaturals, including Garou, Mages, Fae, and Kuei-Jin have dwindled to almost extinct. (Almost!) Vampires are just beginning to take old territories once denied to them by their rivals. Any vampire willing to risk their existence to enter terra nullis might find themselves the founder of a whole new vampiric society.
        • Humans definitely think of it as an Annus Horribilis, what with the terrorists using bombs, super-volcanoes in the Indian Ocean, and assorted weirdness. The world economy is in free-fall, and governments have been falling like rain. Humans, being humans, trudge along through their lives. Knowledge of the supernatural has not been released, mostly due to the heroic efforts of Technocrats desperately patching holes as their final act before dying. Belief in vampires, werewolves and so forth has increased, but sits about where our world puts Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster, with a minority finding them fun to think about, but a majority of people rolling their eyes.
        • The Andaman Islands were, of course, devastated. They had always been a no-gone zone to preserve the native cultures there. UN surveys and expeditions by the government of India, however, have noted vast geographic changes to the islands. Surprisingly, there seem to be a few survivors. Satellite imagery shows they are only active at night, for unknown reasons. The locals are seen crafting a throne out of black stone, and seem to be building a primitive city....

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
          Okay, one possible "Gehenna"... and a way to simplify some of the more Byzantine aspects of vampire society... is a mini-Gehenna, which destroys the vast majority of supernaturals, but leaves human society more or less intact. This will result in fewer vampires, in a less supernatural world.
          1. Saulot makes his move. He fully consumes Tremere's body and the bodies of the vast majority of Tremere, and anyone who has ever tasted Tremere blood. Since the Tremere antitribu took part in the vaulderie, that includes the large majority of the Sabbat. But, what was his move? Using Obeah 10, he turned them all human, to the age they would have been from their natural birth. Of course, this kills almost all of them. Any attempts at re-embrace fail.
          2. This wholesale slaughter of their childer awakens nearly all the sleeping ancients and methuselahs. They are hungry. Who do they eat? Well, weak fledglings are easiest to hunt, but stronger vampires are easier to "detect". Plus, the oldest can only survive on elders. They use stealthy means, mostly, because it is easier. Some just sit back and issue a summons while the weak-willed shuffle off to their destruction. This whole process lasts a few months, before the ancients start turning on one another.
          3. Many Antes summon their childer back to themselves for the slaughter. There are mass migrations of Tzimisce, Setites, Assamites, and Malkavians reported. What happens when they get to their elder is anyone's guess, though, since none return.
          4. Venice decides now is the time for the Endless Night. They release several small nuclear devices to a terrorist group who use them on civilian cities. (Your pick.) This provides the souls needed for the ritual. Augustus performs the ritual and the shroud, world-wide, dwindles to almost nothing. It falls most completely in the vicinity of supernatural creatures, who naturally weaken the dominant paradigm by their very presence.
          5. Spectres pour into our world. The first thing they do is settle up old scores by destroying the evil vampires who have been binding them for millennia, or any nearby supernatural creature, really. Nearly every vampire with necromancy is destroyed. Augustus himself is surprised to find the Capuchin diablerizing him. The Capuchin, of course, is possessed by Cappadocius. The shroud is down for exactly 3.14 seconds, and it ends vampiric necromancy worldwide. Guess Valentina was right.
          6. In addition, the sudden dropping of the shroud causes a Maelstrom. This releases as a massive burst of death energy around the world. Mortal demographers will later note a tremendous spike in deaths at this time, but it mostly effects those already sick, simply speeding up their passing. They assume it is a statistical glitch. Upside, the outflow of jhor equalizes pressures and allows the shroud to be easily resealed by panicked, but quick-thinking, mages.
          7. The sudden influx of jhor is particularly bad for supernatural creatures, including garou, mages, and fae. Over the next few weeks, as their bodies refuse to regenerate lost cells, they appear to suffer from a disease similar to radiation poisoning. Many KueiJin are killed outright, as their Yin energy surges to uncontrollable levels. Most other K-J get pulled back into the hell. Mortals who notice blame this all on fallout from the terrorist attacks. The vast majority of non-Vampire supernaturals die, and those who survive are changed. Nearly all are sterile, which is particularly bad for Garou. All Garou are wyrm tainted, all mages have heavy jhor, and all fae enter their Unseelie personae, etc.
          8. All this tumult manages to awaken the big kahunas. Caine and the second generation. Their first act is to eat any third gens they can find. They take advantage of the momentary slip in the shroud to pull Lilith into the physical world, where she can be attacked. They summon the most powerful Cainites from around the world to assist. Epic battle ensues on the Andaman Islands, which ends in a massive, volcanic explosion. The ash turns day into night for over a week. No one is sure who won.
          9. As the surviving Antedeluvians and Methuselehs from step 2 run out of food, they re-enter torpor.
          So, after the year or so of activity, here is the setting:
          • All major clan founders are presumed destroyed. All evidence of their activity (Malk network, Tzimisce possessions, etc.) cease.
          • Well over 99% of all supernaturals in the world are destroyed. The more powerful they were, the harder they were hit by the 3 Second Tempest, so weaker supernaturals are pretty much what's left.
          • The Sabbat and Camarilla are in complete disarray and likely not to rebuild. Oh, individual survivors may still hold habits of their previous sect (like Paths or the Traditions), but in many cases it takes months or years to find fellow sectarians. It's a rare city that greets the new year with more than two or three vampires in one city. Over the next few years, as new childer are embraced and lines of communication are reopened among survivors, a social setting more like VtDA emerges.
          • Certain clans seem to be (almost) entirely gone. Tremere and Salubri became human and then died. Tzimsice with Vicissitude became goo and joined with the Eldest, then were eaten by Caine. Rumor has it most Lasombra were sucked into the abyss during the Maelstrom. Malks with Dementation went on a pilgrimage to the Andamans to assist in the battle and seem destroyed. The Assamites also went straight into the Andamans and never came back. All vampires with Necromancy seem destroyed, ending several lines. The Setites converged on Uganda, and were eaten before Set was eaten by Tezcatlipoca. The oddest one are the Nosferatu who just... vanished.
          • Though every line was nearly depopulated, a few held on slightly better than others. The Brujah, Gangrel, Dominate Malks, Toreador, and Ventrue are known to be among survivors. Bloodlines had slightly lower excess mortality than clans, but started with so few they are nearly gone. Old Clan Tzimisce, Kiasyd, True Brujah, Tlacique, and Noiad are known to all have at least a small handful of survivors. The various Laibon and new world legacies have also been sighted. The distinction between bloodline and clan has largely been erased. World vampiric population is likely down to a few hundred, tops.
          • Other supernaturals, including Garou, Mages, Fae, and Kuei-Jin have dwindled to almost extinct. (Almost!) Vampires are just beginning to take old territories once denied to them by their rivals. Any vampire willing to risk their existence to enter terra nullis might find themselves the founder of a whole new vampiric society.
          • Humans definitely think of it as an Annus Horribilis, what with the terrorists using bombs, super-volcanoes in the Indian Ocean, and assorted weirdness. The world economy is in free-fall, and governments have been falling like rain. Humans, being humans, trudge along through their lives. Knowledge of the supernatural has not been released, mostly due to the heroic efforts of Technocrats desperately patching holes as their final act before dying. Belief in vampires, werewolves and so forth has increased, but sits about where our world puts Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster, with a minority finding them fun to think about, but a majority of people rolling their eyes.
          • The Andaman Islands were, of course, devastated. They had always been a no-gone zone to preserve the native cultures there. UN surveys and expeditions by the government of India, however, have noted vast geographic changes to the islands. Surprisingly, there seem to be a few survivors. Satellite imagery shows they are only active at night, for unknown reasons. The locals are seen crafting a throne out of black stone, and seem to be building a primitive city....
          I think this be my favorite gehenna so far. No offense to the others of course,improved their takes as well

          Comment


          • #20
            Gehenna is one of those things that isn't a clearly defined event. Sure it is the end of the vampiric world, but often people get wild notions as to exactly what that means and more importantly how far reaching it is.

            ​A Gehenna that only affects Vampires basically would amount to the ancients waking up and doing something, be it eating all of their existing childer or just driving a cab in LA (VtM Bloodlines ftw). Other than a change of vampiric population, the rest of the world just goes on its merry way oblivious to the results. An alternative take on this scale of Gehenna is that the eldest of each clan wakes up and decides to cull the weakest or the least worthy of the bloodline. Then they sire a swath of fresh recruits whom better embody their ideals and values. Can you imagine what would happen to vampire society if several hundred neonates popped up who were all generation 4? The knee jerk reaction would be to diablerize them, except if they were just recently embraced, that means their sire is awake and active, which means no vampire would attempt anything lest the Ante take issue with their childer being munched on.

            ​A Gehenna that is medium in size doesn't so much end the world as much as it creates a new age. Gehenna could just as easily be the point where vampires come out of the coffin and return to society in a manner like True Blood or Anita Blake. This changes the world in many ways, but also things just keep on going. Sure there are vampires now, but they pay taxes and own property like everyone else. The result of this will have massive ramifications for the Kindred population. Any clan that coexist with humans will gain in power and recruitment, while those clans and bloodlines which can't coexist will suffer. This applies to aspects of vampirism such as Paths of Enlightenment and rules of domain as well as several other things.

            ​A Gehenna that is huge in scope and far reaching in ramifications is what most people think of when someone says "gehenna". Biblical end of the world types of scenarios where there are tons of natural disasters, whole bloodlines and clans go extinct, the entire supernatural world gets shredded. Considering the implications of such events, a few centuries post Gehenna you basically have Vampire Hunter D as a setting. Most of the mortal world has been reset to a feudal/old west style of existence and technology with the few remaining bastions of technology being ruled by the few vampire groups that survived the upheaval.

            ​Each type of Gehenna offers a wide variety of play styles and game genre's to mess with. Each type could easily get its own post with extensive explanations of how the setting changes, which aspects of vampire unlife change, and of course showing how the rest of the world reacts to these changes.

            Comment


            • #21
              I have toyed with the idea of a post-gehenna vtm for awhile, particularly one of the "slow burn" variety. In the continuity of my current tabletop chronicle this very thing has happened.

              ​The antideluvians have awakened. First of these was the Ravnos
              anti who decided to go full blood-god and met final death at the end of nukes and such (it is worth noting I ignore kue-jin). The other antis witness to some extent and decide to be a bit more subtle.
              Elders start to die and disappear, the victims of their clan founders. At first this is viewed as a few assassinations or elders going into torpor without telling anyone, but after more than a few disappearances other elders start to get paranoid. The Camarilla starts to go on lock down, with elders and their lackeys working to get as much security as they can to make sure they aren't the next to go. These elders also go to great efforts to keep the rest of the sect in the dark, as they would not want to scream "gehenna is upon us" for fear of being wrong and inciting sabbat uprisings or going against the official camarilla narrative, though leaks do happen. They also go to great lengths to consolidate power, basically focusing on the media and government to ensure that, even in the worst case scenario, the masquerade remains. Many neonates arrive in their local Elysiums to find that the primogen have gone to ground. The camarilla is still around, but it's all shadowy elders running local media and government rather than an open organization. Neonates who break the masquerade too much or too blatently just end up dead or disappeared. Kindred society is one of paranoia. The tremere, who seem to be exempt from the culling, break off from the sect and become largely an independent clan.

              ​The Sabbat capitalize on the power vacuum spreading the idea that gehenna is upon us and the antideluvians are culling the elders first (which is true). This is received well by many and the sect begins to swell. As it swells, orthodoxy begins to wane. Packs begin to differ a bit more and the standard dogma of the sect begins to splinter, heresies are commonplace and eventually the sect splits in a great schism into several factions:
              • ​The Church of Caine: A group which claims to have been given a "new testament" authored by their leader who claims to be Caine. This Caine enforces his rule through his 13 disciples (one from each clan) as well as a series of bishops, similar to the existing sabbat hierarchy. This new sect enforces a version of the traditions that they believe were handed down directly from Caine, one of which includes a version of the masquerade. The Church of Caine is as bloody and rite driven as the sabbat, but does so in a more ritualized fashion, essentially considering itself a vampiric theocracy with Caine as its god. They are very old testament meets inquisition level catholic church, even going so far as to stone heretics and such. They are, as can be guessed, very zealous believing that it is their goal to purge the race of Caine of the unworthy and wage a bloody crusade against the antideluvians.
              • The Keepers of Milan: A group which denies the church of caine and relies heavily of the Code of Milan, following a regent and largely keeping to the principals set forth in it. They are the closest to the old sabbat, focusing more on being an organization than a cult though the retae are still practiced and the paths of enlightenment are still followed. They are a significantly weaker version of what the sabbat used to be with most of the spiritual aspects minimized in exchange for a cohesive structure. This group, to an extent, begins to fill the camarilla's shoes as they at essentially "sabbat-lite".
              • The Panders: The caitiff of the sabbat band together a bit more, becoming their own group. Many within the group believe that only the clanless will be spared from gehenna and conduct rites on members who are not clanless to free them from their ties to the antideluvians. These rites do not seem to have much more than a symbolic meaning, though some who have gone through it claim to have minimized their clan weakness and, at the best, gotten rid of it entirely. These panders conduct themselves informally, having no set series of laws, though the masquerade is informally enforced.
              • Various disparate packs and mystery cults: several large packs break off on their own. The harbingers of skulls break away, taking a few allies and converts with them. The bahari break away. Many join the anarchs.
              The anarchs keep doing what they're doing, growing in number as the major sects collapse. The anarchs, while not really being a sect, become the largest sect in play. If anyone does not claim membership to one of the above groups they are usually assumed to be anarchs, though the term is not often uses (after all why call yourself a rebel if their is nothing to rebel against).

              ​The settites get called back to Egypt by Set so he can sort through who is worthy to serve him and who isn't. They have yet to make any major move aside from taking most of Egypt and forcing all cainites in the area to either worship Set or die. They are seen as odd and insular... for now.

              ​The assamite schism happens and the two main factions duke it out on a large scale with no clear victor as of yet. Some assamite schismatics join up with the Church of Caine (adapting their Islamic beliefs to suit the sect), find refuge in the secrecy of the camarilla as guns for hire, or wander the world in an attempt to stay safe.

              ​The Giovanni try to tear open the shroud. They fail and a lot of them get decimated by wraiths in the process. Those that survive (mostly neonates) use the family's wealth and connections to try and become the new camarilla, finding very minimal success and taking control of a few cities. They begin to adopt members of other clans into the family, diversifying the blood but largely relying on familial ties to keep things together.

              ​This is basically the world I have so far...

              Comment


              • #22
                [QUOTE=cobweb;n1218115]
                I have toyed with the idea of a post-gehenna vtm for awhile, particularly one of the "slow burn" variety. In the continuity of my current tabletop chronicle this very thing has happened.

                ​The antideluvians have awakened. First of these was the Ravnos
                anti who decided to go full blood-god and met final death at the end of nukes and such (it is worth noting I ignore kue-jin). The other antis witness to some extent and decide to be a bit more subtle.
                Elders start to die and disappear, the victims of their clan founders. At first this is viewed as a few assassinations or elders going into torpor without telling anyone, but after more than a few disappearances other elders start to get paranoid. The Camarilla starts to go on lock down, with elders and their lackeys working to get as much security as they can to make sure they aren't the next to go. These elders also go to great efforts to keep the rest of the sect in the dark, as they would not want to scream "gehenna is upon us" for fear of being wrong and inciting sabbat uprisings or going against the official camarilla narrative, though leaks do happen. They also go to great lengths to consolidate power, basically focusing on the media and government to ensure that, even in the worst case scenario, the masquerade remains. Many neonates arrive in their local Elysiums to find that the primogen have gone to ground. The camarilla is still around, but it's all shadowy elders running local media and government rather than an open organization. Neonates who break the masquerade too much or too blatently just end up dead or disappeared. Kindred society is one of paranoia. The tremere, who seem to be exempt from the culling, break off from the sect and become largely an independent clan.

                ​The Sabbat capitalize on the power vacuum spreading the idea that gehenna is upon us and the antideluvians are culling the elders first (which is true). This is received well by many and the sect begins to swell. As it swells, orthodoxy begins to wane. Packs begin to differ a bit more and the standard dogma of the sect begins to splinter, heresies are commonplace and eventually the sect splits in a great schism into several factions:
                • ​The Church of Caine: A group which claims to have been given a "new testament" authored by their leader who claims to be Caine. This Caine enforces his rule through his 13 disciples (one from each clan) as well as a series of bishops, similar to the existing sabbat hierarchy. This new sect enforces a version of the traditions that they believe were handed down directly from Caine, one of which includes a version of the masquerade. The Church of Caine is as bloody and rite driven as the sabbat, but does so in a more ritualized fashion, essentially considering itself a vampiric theocracy with Caine as its god. They are very old testament meets inquisition level catholic church, even going so far as to stone heretics and such. They are, as can be guessed, very zealous believing that it is their goal to purge the race of Caine of the unworthy and wage a bloody crusade against the antideluvians.
                • The Keepers of Milan: A group which denies the church of caine and relies heavily of the Code of Milan, following a regent and largely keeping to the principals set forth in it. They are the closest to the old sabbat, focusing more on being an organization than a cult though the retae are still practiced and the paths of enlightenment are still followed. They are a significantly weaker version of what the sabbat used to be with most of the spiritual aspects minimized in exchange for a cohesive structure. This group, to an extent, begins to fill the camarilla's shoes as they at essentially "sabbat-lite".
                • The Panders: The caitiff of the sabbat band together a bit more, becoming their own group. Many within the group believe that only the clanless will be spared from gehenna and conduct rites on members who are not clanless to free them from their ties to the antideluvians. These rites do not seem to have much more than a symbolic meaning, though some who have gone through it claim to have minimized their clan weakness and, at the best, gotten rid of it entirely. These panders conduct themselves informally, having no set series of laws, though the masquerade is informally enforced.
                • Various disparate packs and mystery cults: several large packs break off on their own. The harbingers of skulls break away, taking a few allies and converts with them. The bahari break away. Many join the anarchs.
                The anarchs keep doing what they're doing, growing in number as the major sects collapse. The anarchs, while not really being a sect, become the largest sect in play. If anyone does not claim membership to one of the above groups they are usually assumed to be anarchs, though the term is not often uses (after all why call yourself a rebel if their is nothing to rebel against).

                ​The settites get called back to Egypt by Set so he can sort through who is worthy to serve him and who isn't. They have yet to make any major move aside from taking most of Egypt and forcing all cainites in the area to either worship Set or die. They are seen as odd and insular... for now.

                ​The assamite schism happens and the two main factions duke it out on a large scale with no clear victor as of yet. Some assamite schismatics join up with the Church of Caine (adapting their Islamic beliefs to suit the sect), find refuge in the secrecy of the camarilla as guns for hire, or wander the world in an attempt to stay safe.

                ​The Giovanni try to tear open the shroud. They fail and a lot of them get decimated by wraiths in the process. Those that survive (mostly neonates) use the family's wealth and connections to try and become the new camarilla, finding very minimal success and taking control of a few cities. They begin to adopt members of other clans into the family, diversifying the blood but largely relying on familial ties to keep things together.

                ​This is basically the world I have so far...

                [/QUOTE
                Hmmm,I like this one as well! I think it may be close to what White Wolf is going to do. Question ,is Set different in any way from the other Antedilluvians? Is there any truth to the claims that he is divine in your world?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by cobweb View Post
                  I have toyed with the idea of a post-gehenna vtm for awhile, particularly one of the "slow burn" variety. In the continuity of my current tabletop chronicle this very thing has happened.

                  ​The antideluvians have awakened. First of these was the Ravnos
                  anti who decided to go full blood-god and met final death at the end of nukes and such (it is worth noting I ignore kue-jin). The other antis witness to some extent and decide to be a bit more subtle.
                  Elders start to die and disappear, the victims of their clan founders. At first this is viewed as a few assassinations or elders going into torpor without telling anyone, but after more than a few disappearances other elders start to get paranoid. The Camarilla starts to go on lock down, with elders and their lackeys working to get as much security as they can to make sure they aren't the next to go. These elders also go to great efforts to keep the rest of the sect in the dark, as they would not want to scream "gehenna is upon us" for fear of being wrong and inciting sabbat uprisings or going against the official camarilla narrative, though leaks do happen. They also go to great lengths to consolidate power, basically focusing on the media and government to ensure that, even in the worst case scenario, the masquerade remains. Many neonates arrive in their local Elysiums to find that the primogen have gone to ground. The camarilla is still around, but it's all shadowy elders running local media and government rather than an open organization. Neonates who break the masquerade too much or too blatently just end up dead or disappeared. Kindred society is one of paranoia. The tremere, who seem to be exempt from the culling, break off from the sect and become largely an independent clan.

                  ​The Sabbat capitalize on the power vacuum spreading the idea that gehenna is upon us and the antideluvians are culling the elders first (which is true). This is received well by many and the sect begins to swell. As it swells, orthodoxy begins to wane. Packs begin to differ a bit more and the standard dogma of the sect begins to splinter, heresies are commonplace and eventually the sect splits in a great schism into several factions:
                  • ​The Church of Caine: A group which claims to have been given a "new testament" authored by their leader who claims to be Caine. This Caine enforces his rule through his 13 disciples (one from each clan) as well as a series of bishops, similar to the existing sabbat hierarchy. This new sect enforces a version of the traditions that they believe were handed down directly from Caine, one of which includes a version of the masquerade. The Church of Caine is as bloody and rite driven as the sabbat, but does so in a more ritualized fashion, essentially considering itself a vampiric theocracy with Caine as its god. They are very old testament meets inquisition level catholic church, even going so far as to stone heretics and such. They are, as can be guessed, very zealous believing that it is their goal to purge the race of Caine of the unworthy and wage a bloody crusade against the antideluvians.
                  • The Keepers of Milan: A group which denies the church of caine and relies heavily of the Code of Milan, following a regent and largely keeping to the principals set forth in it. They are the closest to the old sabbat, focusing more on being an organization than a cult though the retae are still practiced and the paths of enlightenment are still followed. They are a significantly weaker version of what the sabbat used to be with most of the spiritual aspects minimized in exchange for a cohesive structure. This group, to an extent, begins to fill the camarilla's shoes as they at essentially "sabbat-lite".
                  • The Panders: The caitiff of the sabbat band together a bit more, becoming their own group. Many within the group believe that only the clanless will be spared from gehenna and conduct rites on members who are not clanless to free them from their ties to the antideluvians. These rites do not seem to have much more than a symbolic meaning, though some who have gone through it claim to have minimized their clan weakness and, at the best, gotten rid of it entirely. These panders conduct themselves informally, having no set series of laws, though the masquerade is informally enforced.
                  • Various disparate packs and mystery cults: several large packs break off on their own. The harbingers of skulls break away, taking a few allies and converts with them. The bahari break away. Many join the anarchs.
                  The anarchs keep doing what they're doing, growing in number as the major sects collapse. The anarchs, while not really being a sect, become the largest sect in play. If anyone does not claim membership to one of the above groups they are usually assumed to be anarchs, though the term is not often uses (after all why call yourself a rebel if their is nothing to rebel against).

                  ​The settites get called back to Egypt by Set so he can sort through who is worthy to serve him and who isn't. They have yet to make any major move aside from taking most of Egypt and forcing all cainites in the area to either worship Set or die. They are seen as odd and insular... for now.

                  ​The assamite schism happens and the two main factions duke it out on a large scale with no clear victor as of yet. Some assamite schismatics join up with the Church of Caine (adapting their Islamic beliefs to suit the sect), find refuge in the secrecy of the camarilla as guns for hire, or wander the world in an attempt to stay safe.

                  ​The Giovanni try to tear open the shroud. They fail and a lot of them get decimated by wraiths in the process. Those that survive (mostly neonates) use the family's wealth and connections to try and become the new camarilla, finding very minimal success and taking control of a few cities. They begin to adopt members of other clans into the family, diversifying the blood but largely relying on familial ties to keep things together.

                  ​This is basically the world I have so far...
                  Oops,the quote didn't work the first time

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Edit:Ended up posting the same thing twice with a few differences,damn

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                      Hmmm,I like this one as well! I think it may be close to what White Wolf is going to do. Question ,is Set different in any way from the other Antedilluvians? Is there any truth to the claims that he is divine in your world?
                      I actually wondered if they re someone from WW in disguise...


                      If nothing worked, then let's think!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I actually wondered if they re someone from WW in disguise...
                        ​Oh what I would give for that to be true...
                        ​Nope, I'm just a big fan.
                        I wanted to try to get close to what they are planning, and at the very least use some of the hints they have dropped so that my tabletop game does not require a hard reboot once the new edition comes out. If I got it right, then yay. If not, I can easily tell the players "Oh, that church of Caine stuff was just rumors, here's what they are actually like" and squeeze in the new metaplot that way.

                        Hmmm,I like this one as well! I think it may be close to what White Wolf is going to do. Question ,is Set different in any way from the other Antedilluvians? Is there any truth to the claims that he is divine in your world?
                        ​My group has yet to see that questioned answered, but I would say probably. In my mind Set probably made some pretty nasty bargains with some beings and spent his time "away" getting in touch with some pretty dark powers, maybe infernal or the abyss, maybe something else entirely. He's powerful, blood god levels of powerful or at least powerful enough to fake it, but certainly able to be destroyed. I view the settites as being a cult of personality that spent a bit too much time with their leader away. Now that he's back, the glory days of Set are at hand and the blood god will reign again, regardless of whether he is indeed a god at all. I would also wager that Set intends to use his followers to weasel out of his bargains, either through offering the unlives of his followers or finding some other way to get out of what he owes. In my world, Set is a "god" in the sense that he is powerful and worshiped. He is still a descendant of Caine, but vey much a bastard childe bent on denying his heritage and possibly usurping the dark father himself.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          A more subtle Gehenna might result from discipline "malfunctions" wiping out the vampire population.

                          Chimestry slowly turns the vampires with it into illusions, unable to affect reality and eventually reducing the most powerful to that image you see out of the corner of your eye...

                          Protean either turns the vampire into mindless animals or the earth swallows then whole and are never seen again.

                          Vicissitude, well the vampire simply turns into blood and drains away, or twists the vampire into something until it greets the sun.

                          Celerity and Temporis unite at last as vampires briefly are accelerated to Wally West levels of speed, until they ignite from friction or collage into exsangunated corpses, their blood and souls consumed by the Speed For- er, discipline.

                          worst of all is Fortitude, hardening and making the body resistant to all forms of energy, including kinetic. The Defiant Girl statue? Actually a child vampire, unable to move or interact, indestructible and aware.

                          The children of Caine vanish with a whimper, not a bang. The only survivors? The thin blooded, the Clanless, the dhampires, the revenants. Who are left wondering, why we're they immune, or is it a matter of time? The next time that Obertus changes his hair colour, will it be the last thing he does? Will that Enrathi erase his own mind the next time he tries to command a potential victim? Will the thin blood find the curse faded entirely? Will the clanless be consumed or will he become the founder of a new clan?

                          And what caused it in the first place? G_d with a wicked sense of irony? Plots of the Antedeluvians? Lilith's remember on Caine? Or has all this happened before, and will happen again?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            The issue with a notion of having Gehenna while leaving human society intact is, quite frankly, ludicrously implausible. There really can't be a global vampire depopulation event without some corresponding tectonic shifts in the mortal world.

                            The best example of this in cWoD thus far, is Baba Yaga's rise and downfall which is as sure of a localized Gehenna scenario as you can get. As far as any published work in cWoD can be considered, Baba Yaga managed to preserve the Masquerade near perfectly while she and her cultists (let's call them what they were) slaughtered almost every last supernatural in her domain. The end result was the collapse of a nuclearized global superpower into a failed state that took twenty years to rebuild, in the form of an authoritarian oligarchy masquerading as a democracy, ruled by basically the same people as before.

                            The death of the vampires themselves leave power vacuums, and that leads to conflict as rivals and aspirants seek to fill that vacuum. Even if those vampires' peers also die, then it falls to the -- more likely than not, younger and higher-generation -- vampires who survived to fill those power vacuums. Mind you, that's an even worse potential scenario than one elder dying in a vacuum and their influence and power absorbed by other elders; if an elder is a scalpel, a neonate or ancilla is a sledgehammer, as regardless how talented or quick-studied they are, they lack the age and experience to make the requisite power plays and transitions of power subtly.

                            The issue goes deeper than power vacuums. What happens to surviving vampires who, after years or decades of blood bonds, conditioning, and/or emotional manipulation via Presence, finds those bonds cut overnight? That's decades of mental trauma, upon which is stacked a single catastrophic incident of mental trauma, that will take years for a vampire to recover if ever. The fallout from the death of an elder here or there as their (immortal) pawns potentially go insane can be covered, but we're talking about a mass depopulation event, which means easily hundreds of childer and servitors if not thousands -- and not all of those are neonates or high-generation.

                            Just as one example, no matter how much the books go on about Ventrue selecting childer with psychological and behavioral traits amenable to the clan, with personal backgrounds and skill sets that would integrate them well into clan culture, and spend decades personally tutoring childer, the subtext said tutelage is supplemented with selective Dominate and Presence use has always been quite strong, and if I remember correctly outright stated in the Ventrue splatbook. As well, it's never really stated but quite clear Ventrue childer never really leave their sires' presence -- unless they're tasked to other cities -- long enough for the bond to fade naturally; regular Board meetings see to that. What about the Assamites, who are apprenticed as ghouls, embraced once having proven themselves, and spend another apprenticeship period as fledglings before even being taken to Alamut for formal introduction? Is the mere mention of the Giovanni sufficient?

                            That's just the vampires. What about ghouls, blood bound mortals, or other mortals who have been extensively manipulated through use of mental disciplines? Ghouls invariably go completely batshit in short order, and even if they're not fatally-addicted are capable of horrific acts of violence, brutality, and Masquerade breaches once they start jonesing. Fatally-addicted ghouls' power can rival ancillae, and groups of independent ghouls are perfectly capable of hunting down elders for blood. What happens when the wealthy, established, and connected revenant families no longer have the Tzimisce to crack the whip and keep the worst of their depredations in check?

                            What happens when regional, national, and global socioeconomic elites, blood bound for control but not ghouled for stability, hit the brick wall that is the mental trauma of a blood bond suddenly severed? What happens when a personable, but professionally incompetent, CEO who had been receiving business advice from a vampire suddenly loses that lifeline?

                            Again, back to the Baba Yaga example. Society and civilization are inherently self-correcting, and always trends towards the status quo with marginal long-term changes here or there. But, between here and there would be decades of social upheaval and unrest. At the end of it, unchanged for the most part? sure. but the same as it was before? Never.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                              The issue with a notion of having Gehenna while leaving human society intact is, quite frankly, ludicrously implausible. There really can't be a global vampire depopulation event without some corresponding tectonic shifts in the mortal world.

                              The best example of this in cWoD thus far, is Baba Yaga's rise and downfall which is as sure of a localized Gehenna scenario as you can get. As far as any published work in cWoD can be considered, Baba Yaga managed to preserve the Masquerade near perfectly while she and her cultists (let's call them what they were) slaughtered almost every last supernatural in her domain. The end result was the collapse of a nuclearized global superpower into a failed state that took twenty years to rebuild, in the form of an authoritarian oligarchy masquerading as a democracy, ruled by basically the same people as before.

                              The death of the vampires themselves leave power vacuums, and that leads to conflict as rivals and aspirants seek to fill that vacuum. Even if those vampires' peers also die, then it falls to the -- more likely than not, younger and higher-generation -- vampires who survived to fill those power vacuums. Mind you, that's an even worse potential scenario than one elder dying in a vacuum and their influence and power absorbed by other elders; if an elder is a scalpel, a neonate or ancilla is a sledgehammer, as regardless how talented or quick-studied they are, they lack the age and experience to make the requisite power plays and transitions of power subtly.

                              The issue goes deeper than power vacuums. What happens to surviving vampires who, after years or decades of blood bonds, conditioning, and/or emotional manipulation via Presence, finds those bonds cut overnight? That's decades of mental trauma, upon which is stacked a single catastrophic incident of mental trauma, that will take years for a vampire to recover if ever. The fallout from the death of an elder here or there as their (immortal) pawns potentially go insane can be covered, but we're talking about a mass depopulation event, which means easily hundreds of childer and servitors if not thousands -- and not all of those are neonates or high-generation.

                              Just as one example, no matter how much the books go on about Ventrue selecting childer with psychological and behavioral traits amenable to the clan, with personal backgrounds and skill sets that would integrate them well into clan culture, and spend decades personally tutoring childer, the subtext said tutelage is supplemented with selective Dominate and Presence use has always been quite strong, and if I remember correctly outright stated in the Ventrue splatbook. As well, it's never really stated but quite clear Ventrue childer never really leave their sires' presence -- unless they're tasked to other cities -- long enough for the bond to fade naturally; regular Board meetings see to that. What about the Assamites, who are apprenticed as ghouls, embraced once having proven themselves, and spend another apprenticeship period as fledglings before even being taken to Alamut for formal introduction? Is the mere mention of the Giovanni sufficient?

                              That's just the vampires. What about ghouls, blood bound mortals, or other mortals who have been extensively manipulated through use of mental disciplines? Ghouls invariably go completely batshit in short order, and even if they're not fatally-addicted are capable of horrific acts of violence, brutality, and Masquerade breaches once they start jonesing. Fatally-addicted ghouls' power can rival ancillae, and groups of independent ghouls are perfectly capable of hunting down elders for blood. What happens when the wealthy, established, and connected revenant families no longer have the Tzimisce to crack the whip and keep the worst of their depredations in check?

                              What happens when regional, national, and global socioeconomic elites, blood bound for control but not ghouled for stability, hit the brick wall that is the mental trauma of a blood bond suddenly severed? What happens when a personable, but professionally incompetent, CEO who had been receiving business advice from a vampire suddenly loses that lifeline?

                              Again, back to the Baba Yaga example. Society and civilization are inherently self-correcting, and always trends towards the status quo with marginal long-term changes here or there. But, between here and there would be decades of social upheaval and unrest. At the end of it, unchanged for the most part? sure. but the same as it was before? Never.
                              I agree with you,I just didn't total destruction like in the four original scenarios

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Just a suggestion, but since part of the prophecy talks about Caitiff becoming the dominant force among Kindred, your setting could involve Caitiff manifesting at lower generations than they did prior to Gehenna. So instead of being a 14th or 15 gen, you have them popping up around 6th or 7th generation.

                                This allows the previously oppressed clanless vampires to begin amassing new levels of power they didn't have access to before. Eventually leading to them becoming recognized as an authority unto themselves.

                                As for a lore friendly explanation on why this might be happening, you could attribute it to the Antediluvians being destroyed at some point in the past, thus severing their influence over their descendants and allowing them to manifest without metaphysical ties to the 3rd generation.
                                Last edited by Nyrufa; 05-14-2018, 04:51 PM.

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