Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How would you spy on the Sabbat

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How would you spy on the Sabbat

    I have player that wants to become deepcover spy for the Cammy against the Sabbat

    However for the life of me I can't figure out way to pull it off. I just see the vinculum knocking that shit off within 10 seconds.

    The player in question is a lasombra fledging that should up from out of nowhere. He does know Fiend that is able to do some fleshcrafting and if he is doing this for Cam, than the Tremere will gladly give him couple protections to pull out off.

    Like said through I just don't see how player can do it without it going to hell within first 10 seconds. Anyone know of way I can pull it off in a realistic way

  • #2
    There is a Thaumaturgy ritual in V20 Rites of the Blood p27 - Preservation of the Sanguine Heart. It protects one from the person it is cast upon from being Blood Bound or the effects of the Vaulderie for one day per success on the activation. It would work for a bit, at least until an impromptu Vaulderie came up. That said, depending on the rating, they won't instantly feel compelled to give up their secrets and betray their mission.

    Comment


    • #3
      There are a few ways to be a spy against the sabbat without running into the blood issue.

      ​Obfuscation Replacement
      ​This sort of character only does short term jobs where they eliminate a target and then using Obfuscate they replace them. They collect their information and get out before they get stuck with a blood bond. Even if their cover is blown, all they need to do is replace some one else. Think of it as a vampire version of John Carpenters The Thing with a sabbat city rather than an arctic research station.

      3rd Party Spy
      ​There are several independent clans and bloodlines which can do business with both the Camarilla and the Sabbat without attracting attention. A Weapons Dealer is welcomed by whom ever wants to purchase firepower. If the Sabbat are buying up assault supplies, chances are that they will hit a camarilla location within local area or at least within easy travel time. The camarilla would pay well to have that insight before the siege starts. Of course this goes both ways so you can sell information which ever way you want. This can lead to a game that is very Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy in feel.

      Necromancer Intel
      ​Ghosts are very hard to detect and while many can't do much physically, they can gather huge amounts of intelligence just hanging around important meeting places. The only Ghost specialists in the Sabbat are the Harbingers of Skulls, and they are small in numbers and most definitely not warding every sabbat HQ against ghosts. Play as a Giovanni, Nagaraja or perhaps a Tremere who learned a form of Necromancy and you can basically spy on the sabbat from the comfort of your own haven.

      Sadly none of these are the "deep cover" option your player seems to be after.

      Comment


      • #4
        You could fake drinking from the Vaulderie vessel, and perhaps a bit of Presence might help if you slip up, but eventually it might come out.


        Comment


        • #5
          There it´s a combo discipline wich vissicitude that allows you to make another cavity in the troath to prevent drinking vampire blood.Maybe your players character can ask his Fiend to make him a new one in exchange of a boon.

          If there is a very elder tremere in the area just say that he has a talisman that prevents vaulderie but it´s so difficult to make and becuase of that it will not be easy to make him give it to your PC

          Comment


          • #6
            Part of the Sabbat priest's job is to check those in Vaulderie, and there are a few powers created to check it. Even the Aura should change as you drink and it magically changes your feelings for the pack.
            As a false-Sabbat (or not True-Sabbat) you will be drinking from the Vaulderie without contributing; so you'll be noticably bound and thoroughly tested before you can get much out of them.

            The defences against Vaulderie and perceiving the changes are pretty high level (This Tremere ritual plus Obfuscate 6)


            What to do depends on the rest of the players in the group (if there are any)

            The best in-game way to get this to work for the Camarilla is to lead the foolish Lasombra into doing this knowing that these issues we've discussed will come up.
            Let the PC be turned and the Sabbat know that they've turned him. But have deep dominate conditioning and/or Tremere sorceries involved.

            Conditioning - Have the PC Character slowly realise that there are breaks in his memory just when the Sabbat are about to raid thanks to the information provided by him. These breaks are where the character has reported what is going on to the Camarilla, so they know everything and have set up a Trap for the Sabbat.

            Sorceries - there's a stone that can help find location, but no doubt you could make up a couple of rituals to help with monitoring the Lasombra as they infiltrate, possibly a ritual to break the Vaulderie once it's all over


            For a one person Chronicle, it could be quite a thrilling experience to have the PC fighting the influence of the Sabbat then turning, only to find out he was a secret mole after the turn; succeeding at his original task of infiltration but with the emotional ride of being forced to care about a pack and then seeing them destroyed in front of him.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm mot sure it is the Priest's job to Auspex check the Vaulderie's effects, and honestly kind of sounds like an easy way to get the Priest in trouble for being weak and cheating, (trying to see who is heavily linked to who for political manipulation).

              I would think that Tremere sorceries would be the much bigger issue that might come up from casual observation at any time, and much harder to explain.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                The best in-game way to get this to work for the Camarilla is to lead the foolish Lasombra into doing this knowing that these issues we've discussed will come up.
                Let the PC be turned and the Sabbat know that they've turned him. But have deep dominate conditioning and/or Tremere sorceries involved.

                Conditioning - Have the PC Character slowly realise that there are breaks in his memory just when the Sabbat are about to raid thanks to the information provided by him. These breaks are where the character has reported what is going on to the Camarilla, so they know everything and have set up a Trap for the Sabbat.

                Sorceries - there's a stone that can help find location, but no doubt you could make up a couple of rituals to help with monitoring the Lasombra as they infiltrate, possibly a ritual to break the Vaulderie once it's all over


                For a one person Chronicle, it could be quite a thrilling experience to have the PC fighting the influence of the Sabbat then turning, only to find out he was a secret mole after the turn; succeeding at his original task of infiltration but with the emotional ride of being forced to care about a pack and then seeing them destroyed in front of him.
                This is a very good way, and work well in the cWoD ambiance for me.
                Dwelling among the Sabbat is Sure to deplete the humanity rating of the Character, he should be prepared to go full in and "trust" his elder/cotterie to pull him out and well when needed.
                The whole sleeper agent is very nice, and actually not that hard to do. Dominate level 2 and 3 are, to me, sufficient to pull a remote trigger action in the mind of the character and erase this memory once the report is done (i even so that in a manga or comic recently but cannot remember the name as of right now), granted the domination is done by a powerful cainite, but for that kind of mission, i assume the PC is at the service of some powerful entity.
                Btw, can you give us more detailed context ? Does he serve a master ? is he Blood bonded ? Is it a short term mission, fearing for an attack or a long term mission ? How old is he and what gen ? IDoes the prince know ?

                Away from that, with a VERY HIGH (9 or 10) willpower and a strong RP, you can just go . . . well normal. Just have him trying to blend in convince his new brethren, commit ot vaulderie and have the character deal with the "real" problem of being infiltrated : the shaking of your resolve.
                That could be an interesting path : does he PC break and turn or do he manage to stay true to his nature.

                Be direct with your PC : whatever you, as a ST choose, this endeavour should not be simple to pull out, and should be high risk for the PC.
                There is no easy way to get into the Sabbat, contrary to camarilla which is far simpler :/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Piratejm View Post

                  This is a very good way, and work well in the cWoD ambiance for me.
                  Dwelling among the Sabbat is Sure to deplete the humanity rating of the Character, he should be prepared to go full in and "trust" his elder/cotterie to pull him out and well when needed.
                  The whole sleeper agent is very nice, and actually not that hard to do. Dominate level 2 and 3 are, to me, sufficient to pull a remote trigger action in the mind of the character and erase this memory once the report is done (i even so that in a manga or comic recently but cannot remember the name as of right now), granted the domination is done by a powerful cainite, but for that kind of mission, i assume the PC is at the service of some powerful entity.
                  Btw, can you give us more detailed context ? Does he serve a master ? is he Blood bonded ? Is it a short term mission, fearing for an attack or a long term mission ? How old is he and what gen ? IDoes the prince know ?

                  Away from that, with a VERY HIGH (9 or 10) willpower and a strong RP, you can just go . . . well normal. Just have him trying to blend in convince his new brethren, commit ot vaulderie and have the character deal with the "real" problem of being infiltrated : the shaking of your resolve.
                  That could be an interesting path : does he PC break and turn or do he manage to stay true to his nature.

                  Be direct with your PC : whatever you, as a ST choose, this endeavour should not be simple to pull out, and should be high risk for the PC.
                  There is no easy way to get into the Sabbat, contrary to camarilla which is far simpler :/

                  He is a fledgling, lucky story wise the Sabbat just had a failed shovelhead mass embrace. He currently serves no master and has no blood bonds. How short or long is something leave up to the player. Age wise he is going on his 3rd night and is 9th gen. He wants to work this out with Prince but just don't know how to get it to work out.

                  Am thinking high levels of dominate, with some fleshcrafting from the Fiend who is doing similar job but with the anarchs. Fiend making little sacks of blood from another vampire that can be used in the vauldire instead of his own.

                  I will be talking to him and explaining that this mission with high chance of failure but he has story trump card. He and the remnant of the Lasombra Antideviliun met and had a little chat. Lets just say 700 years hasn't made him to happy about the whole losing his human coil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Beckett View Post
                    I'm mot sure it is the Priest's job to Auspex check the Vaulderie's effects, and honestly kind of sounds like an easy way to get the Priest in trouble for being weak and cheating, (trying to see who is heavily linked to who for political manipulation).

                    I would think that Tremere sorceries would be the much bigger issue that might come up from casual observation at any time, and much harder to explain.
                    Well the biggest issue is that you have to precast the Tremere stuff and it lasts for a number of days. I agree it'd be odd for a Priest to be going to that extent to confirm the Vaulderie, even assuming they have Auspex. But the much more real threat is the fact that a good priest is probably going to have random Vaulderies every once in a while, either to reinforce their current one or bring in a new Pack member, that won't always let someone be ready for. Plus likely getting suspicious when no one gives a rat's ass about the new guy. You could probably write it off once or twice, but that'd be at play eventually.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What I meant by faking drinking is to pretend to partake, contributing blood, going through the religious motions, put the cup to their mouths, and roll Self-Control to not Frenzy and drink, (like Diff 3 or 4 in most cases), and a Dex/Man + Stealth/Subterfuge check to act like they are drinking.

                      If there are a few fake Sabbatt in the same Pack, they could also help each other out with distractions.

                      I would think Thaumaturgy spells, rituals, or trinkets might be detected at any random time, and there is a huge risk of not being able to "check in" for a new dose.

                      The major problem with Dominate is that it is far too unreliable in this case. I mean, the Vaulderie was specifically designed to break the Blood Bond's and Dominate's hold on Childer during the Anarch Revolt. Dominate can't make you do or think anything against your nature, and the Vaulderie changes your nature, even if artificially.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by negZero View Post


                        He is a fledgling, lucky story wise the Sabbat just had a failed shovelhead mass embrace. He currently serves no master and has no blood bonds. How short or long is something leave up to the player. Age wise he is going on his 3rd night and is 9th gen. He wants to work this out with Prince but just don't know how to get it to work out.

                        Am thinking high levels of dominate, with some fleshcrafting from the Fiend who is doing similar job but with the anarchs. Fiend making little sacks of blood from another vampire that can be used in the vauldire instead of his own.

                        I will be talking to him and explaining that this mission with high chance of failure but he has story trump card. He and the remnant of the Lasombra Antideviliun met and had a little chat. Lets just say 700 years hasn't made him to happy about the whole losing his human coil.
                        Okay, so why does he want to do SUCH a dangerous task from his first few nights ? Does he seek revenge on the Sabbat ? Does he actually KNOW what the sabbat is about ?
                        He serv no one do you mean his sire is not link to any one remotely important or that he is not known by important powers ?

                        If he is truly young, and "innocent" i would not see a problem for him to go DIRECTLY to the prince and offer this mission. Of course it would be highly suspicious but few cainite freely offer them as an infiltration tool to their prince : he is a young and have no allies or power, can be easely coerced or magically secured (blood bond, dominate, a 1000 other ways) and is not known by anyone, and even if he fail it's not a truly big loss. I think a prince would clearly considerate how to take advantage of such offer.

                        ABout the pure system, DOminate is a good choice, if used by a very powerful cainite. Fleshcraft is . . . risky i would say. Sabbat is full of Tzimisce, it's not hard for them to spot another's craft.
                        + if not preserved by some alchemical/magical rituals, the potency and actual effect of Vitae goes out pretty swiftly after it havebeen extracted from a cainite body. YOu can overule that if you want of course, but yeah, if you keep to the lore it's likely that said pouched blood will be impotent in regard of Vaulderie rituals.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Piratejm View Post

                          Okay, so why does he want to do SUCH a dangerous task from his first few nights ? Does he seek revenge on the Sabbat ? Does he actually KNOW what the sabbat is about ?
                          He serv no one do you mean his sire is not link to any one remotely important or that he is not known by important powers ?

                          If he is truly young, and "innocent" i would not see a problem for him to go DIRECTLY to the prince and offer this mission. Of course it would be highly suspicious but few cainite freely offer them as an infiltration tool to their prince : he is a young and have no allies or power, can be easely coerced or magically secured (blood bond, dominate, a 1000 other ways) and is not known by anyone, and even if he fail it's not a truly big loss. I think a prince would clearly considerate how to take advantage of such offer.

                          ABout the pure system, DOminate is a good choice, if used by a very powerful cainite. Fleshcraft is . . . risky i would say. Sabbat is full of Tzimisce, it's not hard for them to spot another's craft.
                          + if not preserved by some alchemical/magical rituals, the potency and actual effect of Vitae goes out pretty swiftly after it havebeen extracted from a cainite body. YOu can overule that if you want of course, but yeah, if you keep to the lore it's likely that said pouched blood will be impotent in regard of Vaulderie rituals.

                          Why does he want to do such dangerous task. Cause the player wants to do it. Face facts Prince would gladly send fledging lasombra who showed on her door one night on such stupidly dangerous mission especially if he volunteer for it

                          He knows about the Sabbat cause, its an all new player group and decided to show them all 3 of the major sects so they could choose which one they wanted to join

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Beckett View Post
                            What I meant by faking drinking is to pretend to partake, contributing blood, going through the religious motions, put the cup to their mouths, and roll Self-Control to not Frenzy and drink, (like Diff 3 or 4 in most cases), and a Dex/Man + Stealth/Subterfuge check to act like they are drinking.
                            The problem with faking is that drinking is part of the ritual and if any part of the ritual is done improperly the ritual fails.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post

                              The problem with faking is that drinking is part of the ritual and if any part of the ritual is done improperly the ritual fails.
                              Hence why I was thinking the hidden pouch in the neck. He techincally drinks from it but doesn't consume. Basically Clinton "I didn't inhale" defence

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X