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Hopes for Clan Cappadocian in V5

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  • Hopes for Clan Cappadocian in V5

    I am currently reading BJD, and some of the content regarding the Cappadocians have gotten me excited for the possibilities of Clan Cappadocian for V5. I love how Lazarus has been busy with the Capuchin Cult in TMR, and the seeming resergence of Clan Cappadocian. Anyone have thoughts on these developments?


    "Remember, remember, the Fifth of November, the Gunpowder Treason and Plot. I know of no reason why the Gunpowder Treason should ever be forgot."

    -V for Vendetta

  • #2
    I'm sure the Harbingers of Skulls will get some mention, but the Cappadocians are basically gone in modern times. I think the best case scenario is they have a war of mutual destruction with the Giovanni, and they both get wiped out. WWP hasn't really said anything about them, that I've seen, though. So, I wouldn't expect any info on them for awhile.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Florin View Post
      I'm sure the Harbingers of Skulls will get some mention, but the Cappadocians are basically gone in modern times. I think the best case scenario is they have a war of mutual destruction with the Giovanni, and they both get wiped out. WWP hasn't really said anything about them, that I've seen, though. So, I wouldn't expect any info on them for awhile.
      I would, personally, like to see some consolidation of the necromantic lines, but I wouldn't count on it. BJD made a point of showcasing the seemingly endless list of vampiric lines that are walking, rotting corpses, or necromancers, or both.

      Ever have a new player ask you, "I want to play a vampire who's a medium who sees ghosts. What clan should I play?" Wading through it all could take hours.

      Point of trivia: there are seven different lines with Necromancy as an in-clan discipline. Add the Samedi (who have Necromancy in Victorian), and there are more necro-corpsey related lines than there are clans of the Camarilla.

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      • #4
        So, V20 might have changed this, (or could be unaware of this), but the Harbingers of Skulls, Samedi, and Mla Watu ARE the Cappadocians.

        Some of the Cappadocians had failed to heed the call to the Feast of Folly while others survived inside the cave, escaping through powerful Necromancy that sent them forward in time, but aged them unnaturally.

        These are the Harbingers, along with some hidding with the Setites in Egypt. Its not that the Harbingers do not Embrace, but rather something changed, and newly Embraced Harbingers are actually the Samedi, possibly swapping out Aspex for Obfuscate due to a bargain with the Nosferatu, hence the Samedi's Nosferatu connection. The Giovanni one should be obvious.

        The Mla Watu could be descendants of a Cappadocian that did not make it to the Feast of Folly, or an Lazereen that fled when Lazarus was sent to Torpor after.

        It is also entirely possible that there are a few "true" Cappadocians around, outside of the Mla Watu.

        The Giovanni technically a Cappadocian Bloodline that usurped the main Clan, though they occasionally still sire Cappadocians, (rarely).

        The Nagaraja are not related at all, created by the Black Hand's proto-Euthanatos Mages in a way similar to the Tremere, and is ironically actually a Setite Bloodline in the same way Tremere is actually a Tzimisce one. They have Necromancy because they originally had been mortal necromancers.

        The Maeghar are Kiasyd, sort of, but do not actually have Necromancy. They are sort of the Kiasyd with true Fey Blood, (Embraced Fey), and have Mytherceria and two of the other Disciplines of their Sire's Clan. Those who do not have Fey blood are simply Caitiff. When a Cainite Embraces a Fey, and the extremely rare case the Childe survives, they become Maeghar, a unique Caitiff.

        One of them decided wanted to take over, started killing the others, then made their brood into the Kiasyd Bloodline. Necromancy was removed from the Kiasyd after 2nd Ed, because wtf, really. Someone actually thought that was a good idea.
        Last edited by Beckett; 06-08-2018, 03:40 PM.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Beckett View Post
          So, V20 might have changed this, (or could be unaware of this), but the Harbingers of Skulls, Samedi, and Mla Watu ARE the Cappadocians.
          As of BJD Samedi have multiple potential sources and the Mla Watu are Laibon unconnected.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lian View Post

            As of BJD Samedi have multiple potential sources and the Mla Watu are Laibon unconnected.
            Kind of, maybe.
            Its all that stupid shit with unreliable narrator.
            I am aware of most of V20s changes, I just don't really follow them, as definitive, per se.

            I wouldn't doubt there is also an unhealthy dose of either being completely unaware of some prior material (understandable as the game had been dead a long while and went through 3 editions plus the whole WoD) or wanting to get personal house setting ideas in canon print to.


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            • #7
              As of BJD, Lazarus and his childe Angelique, are orchestrating the whole thing.... With the various Giovanni families being stripped from the main clan, the Giovanni themselves are getting isolated. Perfect time for the Giovanni to be wiped out en masse.


              "Remember, remember, the Fifth of November, the Gunpowder Treason and Plot. I know of no reason why the Gunpowder Treason should ever be forgot."

              -V for Vendetta

              Comment


              • #8
                The way I read it, there are at least three main off-shoots of the Cappadocians: the Samedi, the Harbingers and the Giovanni.

                The Infitiores were the ones who ignored the call to the Feast of Folly, and they (mostly) degenerated into the Samedi. They probably went to the Caribbean with the Followers of Set, as Lazarus and his get hid out in Egypt. However, Lazarus isn't a Samedi himself, and he is one of three vampires that seems to use the Capuchin identity (the other two being Japheth and Byzar). Lazarus' primary offshoot is the Harbingers.

                Lazarus may have been in torpor after destroying the Sargon Codex, waking again in the Final Nights. It's not clear, however, as Lazarus may have been active with the rest of the Harbingers across the Shroud.

                Those vampires trapped during the Feast of Folly either waited it out in Kaymakli (again, probably in torpor), or fled across the Shroud. Other clan members also fled across the Shroud to escape the Giovanni purge, rather than the Feast of Folly. Regardless of whether they escaped Kaymakli or crossed the Shroud, though, these vampires collectively became the Harbingers.

                Some Harbingers also apparently claim to be Risen that claimed dead bodies for revenge (it's not clear if they're former vampire souls or just Risen masquerading as vampires, if this claim is even true at all). This could just be a lie, however, or a self-deception.

                Some of the Harbingers found Enoch while in the Underworld and joined the Tal'Mahe'Ra, where they focussed more on Necromancy than revenge. Others worked with the Setites. It's possible both groups are really working together to undermine both the TMR and the Setites.

                It appears Japheth may be stoking divisions within the Harbingers to challenge Lazarus, too. His childe is Unre (Constancia), who was instrumental in getting many Harbingers back from the Underworld. But that is also unclear. Lazarus and Angelique seem to be behind a lot of things, really, so it's possible they're spreading a lot of the misinformation.

                Anyway, the Giovanni are the most well-known surviving branch of the clan. Their Antediluvian wants to bring down the Shroud, though, and lord it over a world of ghosts and humans living side-by-side. The surviving spirit of Cappadocius had been trapped by Ambrogino until recently, and the info he gave Ambro may have caused a rift within the Giovanni too (or perhaps more widely, with the distinct possibility that a second purge may happen, wiping out the Giovanni like Cappadocians before them). Of course Old Cap is probably just manipulating Ambrogino for his own ends (this is the vampire who wanted to diablerise God, after all).
                Last edited by adambeyoncelowe; 06-10-2018, 11:03 AM.

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                • #9
                  Its a bit garbled. We have the 1st-Revised plot and the V20 plotish, and the two diverge.

                  1st-Revised: Surviving Capps in Kaymakli utilized high level Necromancy/Mortis to enter the underworld with the intent of escaping the cursed door. It worked, but instead of exiting in their own time, they exited in the Final Nights. The trip had severely aged them, in the Vampiric sense, causing their Clan Weakness to severely escilate from death palor to mummified corpses. They learned about what had all transpired and joined the Sabbat only to gain allies. Some hated the Camarilla, some did not. They did however want to destroy the Giovanni.

                  They did NOT find Enoch or the True Black Hand as Underworld Enoch had been utterly destroyed, and the Hand disbanded.

                  They instead teamed up with Lazerus in Egypt who also had somewhat recently awoken, but was both a traitor to the Clan and kind of a Setite pawn.

                  They let others believe they did not Embrace, but the Samedi where in fact their Childer, and my suspicion is they found it convenient to hide the Samedi with the Nosferatu, and likely that the Nosferatu pieced it all together, (keeping in mind Cam and Sabbat Nos are on speaking terms and swap info).

                  V20: It MIGHT have been the plan the whole time, with Capoadocious storing an army away for his final rise to power. He was not trying to Diab God, not really.

                  The Harbingers are a combination of Lazerus's brood/those that did not make the Feast and also the survivors from Kaymakli, who had been in contact and working together the whole time via the different aspects of "the Capuchin", and have sucessfully infiltrated the Sabbat and Black Hand, OUTSIDE of the Hand "controlling" the Sabbat, ironically.

                  But, the thing is, the Giovanmi's big plan was a lie from the start, and what will actually happen once the Shroud is destroyed is (spirit) Necromancers will become almoat powerless and Wraiths will become god-like, especially ancient Wraiths that had already been kind of god-like beforehand,... kind of like Cappadocious...

                  The Samedi revert to the 2nd Ed initial lore, "we come from the Baron", which could be just what it is, could be them not telling or not aware of the Cappadocian connection, or could be going somewhere else entirerly. Being that V20 was suppossed to be a culmimation of all VtM, but has officially stopped advancing, and V5 is not confirmed to follow anything Non-LARP that came before, none of this may matter at all.


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                  • #10
                    That last part kind of makes me sad.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Beckett View Post
                      Its a bit garbled. We have the 1st-Revised plot and the V20 plotish, and the two diverge.

                      1st-Revised: Surviving Capps in Kaymakli utilized high level Necromancy/Mortis to enter the underworld with the intent of escaping the cursed door. It worked, but instead of exiting in their own time, they exited in the Final Nights. The trip had severely aged them, in the Vampiric sense, causing their Clan Weakness to severely escilate from death palor to mummified corpses. They learned about what had all transpired and joined the Sabbat only to gain allies. Some hated the Camarilla, some did not. They did however want to destroy the Giovanni.

                      They did NOT find Enoch or the True Black Hand as Underworld Enoch had been utterly destroyed, and the Hand disbanded.

                      They instead teamed up with Lazerus in Egypt who also had somewhat recently awoken, but was both a traitor to the Clan and kind of a Setite pawn.

                      They let others believe they did not Embrace, but the Samedi where in fact their Childer, and my suspicion is they found it convenient to hide the Samedi with the Nosferatu, and likely that the Nosferatu pieced it all together, (keeping in mind Cam and Sabbat Nos are on speaking terms and swap info).

                      V20: It MIGHT have been the plan the whole time, with Capoadocious storing an army away for his final rise to power. He was not trying to Diab God, not really.

                      The Harbingers are a combination of Lazerus's brood/those that did not make the Feast and also the survivors from Kaymakli, who had been in contact and working together the whole time via the different aspects of "the Capuchin", and have sucessfully infiltrated the Sabbat and Black Hand, OUTSIDE of the Hand "controlling" the Sabbat, ironically.

                      But, the thing is, the Giovanmi's big plan was a lie from the start, and what will actually happen once the Shroud is destroyed is (spirit) Necromancers will become almoat powerless and Wraiths will become god-like, especially ancient Wraiths that had already been kind of god-like beforehand,... kind of like Cappadocious...

                      The Samedi revert to the 2nd Ed initial lore, "we come from the Baron", which could be just what it is, could be them not telling or not aware of the Cappadocian connection, or could be going somewhere else entirerly. Being that V20 was suppossed to be a culmimation of all VtM, but has officially stopped advancing, and V5 is not confirmed to follow anything Non-LARP that came before, none of this may matter at all.

                      Eh, V20 was meant to be metaplot-agnostic and not really answer much, if anything.

                      V5 is also explicitly not following any current LARP materials (V5 is explicitly not following anything written by BNS for their LARP timeline, as much as people screech about it); it's building on a combination of 1e, 2e and Revised material, and adding new things into the already-garbled stuff. It's not like any of this stuff was definitively answered in any other edition anyway. BJD is pretty explicitly written referencing prior material exempting the few retcons like Anatole being alive.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by elmerg View Post
                        BJD is pretty explicitly written referencing prior material exempting the few retcons like Anatole being alive.
                        And the Ravnos not being decimated due to the death of their Ante (which either didn't happen or didn't result in the Clan consuming itself).


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lian View Post

                          As of BJD Samedi have multiple potential sources and the Mla Watu are Laibon unconnected.
                          If you read Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom, the Mla Watu are not native to the Laibon Lands, they arrived dodging the Feast of Folly and the Giovanni Purge.


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #14
                            Granted, it is suspected, but sort of proves my point. V20 kind of touches on past material, but then veers away from it, too.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Japheth View Post
                              I am currently reading BJD, and some of the content regarding the Cappadocians have gotten me excited for the possibilities of Clan Cappadocian for V5.
                              [..]
                              Anyone have thoughts on these developments?
                              If Giovanni being dropped from the V5 might be the single thing that could and would very likely drive me off the V5.
                              On the one hand it would go against the answer to my question during the WoD Berlin event, on the other hand I do consider the Cappadocians really lame.

                              It doesn't as well help my confidence towards the BJD - for which I hold up reading until my Deluxe edition arrives

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