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  • Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
    It wouldn't be so bad if WW had better post-publication support. It's nice we sometimes see a member of the writing staff pop in on a board discussion to chat or answer questions. It really is quite gracious of them... and thanks to all who have done this!... but why not just have an errata/FAQ/explanatory column page?
    You mean Onyx Path, since WW hasn't RELEASED anything yet? And I would expect there to be a more sensible errata involved; the Jasons who developed the new MET version are involved and one of the big things that was part of the post-release was compiling and getting all the errata in one spot. Also, the WoD website seems a bit more directed to having something like errata, whereas the OPP site is... more of a blog for releases and advertising.

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    • So, Matthew Dawkins appearently had to shut down his social media, because of the ongoing hate-mongering and, as someone said on fb "doxxing by a former OPP writer"?

      Truly, this whole stuff is ridiculous. I wonder what will be the end of it.


      If nothing worked, then let's think!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

        Fix It In-Character Perhaps most problematically, the player may have an easy fix. If I were playing a Toreador I might ask, "Will this place trigger my flaw?" I would ask this at the start of every scene. If the answer is "yes", then leave. Now. No, really, just walk out. In-world and in-character it would be an obvious reaction to having this flaw. Does this cause more problems than it solves? Yep.
        I feel like this is the INTENT to get toreador to NOT want to go places that are horrible.. I am just think it might be too big.

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        • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
          So, Matthew Dawkins appearently had to shut down his social media, because of the ongoing hate-mongering and, as someone said on fb "doxxing by a former OPP writer"?
          Specifically, Olivia Hill shared an email without scrubbing it under the assumption that it was a publicly associated email account (it was one Matthew has openly associated with in interviews/etc.), and has apologized and taken that down.

          The asshats that felt that harassing Matthew over a poorly written blog article on the Internet remain horrible people. No feelings about V5, or how WW has handled their efforts, justifying harassment of anyone.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

            Specifically, Olivia Hill shared an email without scrubbing it under the assumption that it was a publicly associated email account (it was one Matthew has openly associated with in interviews/etc.), and has apologized and taken that down.
            Yeah, not surprised.

            The asshats that felt that harassing Matthew over a poorly written blog article on the Internet remain horrible people. No feelings about V5, or how WW has handled their efforts, justifying harassment of anyone.
            You know, I'm thinking about how this whole "internet" thingy is becoming counterproductive for creators. Okay, that's not fair, but I really miss the days when there were books some people liked and some didn't, but much-much less histerics, overall.

            Edit: but it's VtM, it was bound to be controversial. I just hope the people at WW will weather the storm, because all the disagreements I have with their creative choices, this whole thing is just unfair and ridiculous.
            Last edited by PMárk; 07-10-2018, 09:42 PM.


            If nothing worked, then let's think!

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            • I also am not sure I wrote it down here, but from an outsider's viewpoint, it's actually funny, in a black-humor way, that V5 might well be the most outspokenly leftist edition of the game, with plainly brandishing the writers' real-world stances on things (hint: they are very not on the political right side -or even centrist) in the game's narrative and even rules examples and it's still people on their political side they're getting the heat from. And for things which were always part of the game, right in the corebooks. Well.

              Truly, I'm half expecting chanting protesters in front of their GenCon booth, protesting and accusing a group of people for being nazi-simpathyzers, who are, in truth are also more on the hard-left than not, are leftist political activists and even members of left political parties...

              Really, I'm really sorry for them and their grievances, but the whole thing is just sooo ironic, it's actually funny. That's how the revolution eats up its own children, I guess. You just can't be pure enough if you don't toe the line in every respect and even then, you willi be called ou, since there are different lines and it's impossible to toe all of them.
              Last edited by PMárk; 07-10-2018, 10:57 PM.


              If nothing worked, then let's think!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                I also am not sure I wrote it down here, but as an outsider's viewpoint, it's actually funny, in a black-humor way, that V5 might well be the most outspokenly leftist edition of the game, with plainly brandishing the writers' real-world stances on things (hint: they are very not on the right side) in the game's narrative and even rules examples and it's still people on their political side they're getting the heat from. And for things which were always part of the game, right in the corebooks. Well.

                Truly, I'm half expecting chanting protesters in front of their GenCon booth, protesting and accusing a group of people for being nazi-simpathyzers, who are, in truth are also more on the hard-left than not, are leftist political activists and even members of left political parties...

                Really, I'm really sorry for them and their grievances, but the whole thing is just sooo ironic, it's actually funny. That's how the revolution eats up its own children, I guess. You just can't be pure enough if you don't toe the line in every respect and even then, you willi be called ou, since there are different lines and it's impossible to toe all of them.
                I Hope Martin Dhaunae,Matthew Juhanna,Jason and the rest of White Wolf are okay

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                  I Hope Martin Dhaunae,Matthew Juhanna,Jason and the rest of White Wolf are okay
                  I guess it depends on how much shit are they giving about a very vocal, but very minor group of people on the internet.

                  If I would be them, I'd just let the whole thing to fade into the background over time, because it will. If a lot of people will not pick up V5, or abandon it after taking a glance, it will be because of it ffeling too different, or them not liking the rules, or setting changes, or writing style, not because of this sillyness.

                  The bigger matter is how personally they are willing to take the whole debacle. I wouldn't be surprised half the team quitting after the release, just because they've had enough of this shit.
                  Last edited by PMárk; 07-10-2018, 10:59 PM.


                  If nothing worked, then let's think!

                  Comment


                  • Having read the original article before it was taken down, I felt the entire thing was just insane. It made leaps of logic like "Ventrue feed on children, feeding is a sexual act, ergo feeding on children is pedophilia so White Wolf/Onyx Path supports pedophilia!" is a level of reaching that would be a push even for Mr. Fantastic to achieve. It came off a lot as "I don't think this thing I see printed in the book, you need to remove the thing because it offends me".

                    I'm a Libertarian. There's tons of stuff in White Wolf material going back to the beginning that would offend me on a political level if I wanted to take it that way. I mean, the Camarilla sect itself is about the most Authoritarian affront to Libertarianism there is but that doesn't stop me from both playing AND enjoying Camarilla vampires.

                    There's this rule dating back in roleplaying from forever ago: if you don't like something, don't use it. It's that simple. If thing X offends you, don't run it in your game and don't sanction it on a character from one of your players. Simple as that.

                    Comment


                    • The article went out of its way to say that was sepecificalky talking about White Wolf and not Onyx Path (save to the extent that some Onyx Path products are licensed from and thus profit Whit Wolf - but the article made very clear repeatedly the hiring and marketing behavior it was talking about was specific to White Wolf and not Onyx Path. Let’s not misrepresent that.

                      Anyway, I do think the article attributed to malicious design things that are actually simply bad taste. They called it on the “Edgelord” attitudes dominating 5th edition material and marketing we’ve seen - and unfortunately some people can’t differentiate that kind of purile shockvalue most of us matured past as teenagers with “mature themes” when they’re anything but. But that doesn’t equate to an intentional targeting of the Alt-Right as the game’s base or pushing any kind of right-wing agenda. Though using “triggered” the way disgusting trolls do instead of refering to PTSD flashbacks has been pretty eyebrow raising since the release of the preview in question.


                      Edit: if it has to be restated, none of this justifies personal harassment of the White Wolf staff and writers, anymore than it does the barrage of death threats that Dogs with Dice have received. It’s simply a matter of “this game is clearly not written for my tastes to the degree 20th Anniversary VtM and VtDA were, and i’m not going to spend my money on it.”
                      Last edited by glamourweaver; 07-11-2018, 07:50 PM.


                      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                      • I can't understand why people would go through all this for the sake of an RPG. I've heard that American politics are rather emotional at this time but people are taking this way to far. My condolenses to anyone subjected to hate mongering, harassement or the like.
                        Last edited by Gurkhal; 07-11-2018, 03:24 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by Gurkhal View Post
                          EDITED: And I am curious if there will be a new Dark Ages line or if I should get V20. But that's really not in any hurry so I can wait and see.
                          Considering they're already about to continue multiple game lines, I would assume Dark Ages will be in there somewhere down the line.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cifer View Post
                            Considering they're already about to continue multiple game lines, I would assume Dark Ages will be in there somewhere down the line.
                            I like the sound of that. That will of course, I assume, depend on how V5 sells.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gurkhal View Post
                              EDITED: And I am curious if there will be a new Dark Ages line or if I should get V20. But that's really not in any hurry so I can wait and see.
                              I would pick up the DAV20. It's a great book and all you need really.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by glamourweaver
                                Anyway, I do think the article attributed to malicious design things that are actually simply bad taste. They called it on the “Edgelord” attitudes dominating 5th edition material and marketing we’ve seen - and unfortunately some people can’t differentiate that kind of purile shockvalue most of us matured past as teenagers with “mature themes” when they’re anything but. But that doesn’t equate to an intentional targeting of the Alt-Right as the game’s base or pushing any kind of right-wing agenda.
                                Indeed, I haven't read the entire debate so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I remember a controvertial lesbian character that murder/rapped Trump voters and was presented in very positive light...how it's that going to attract the Alt-Right?

                                I do think WW are a bunch of edgelords but...I think that the polemical article it's wrong about several points if not most of them

                                For instance: vampires being underdog antagonized by a secret globalist conspiracy

                                Nazis and alt-right aren't the only ones that are against "globalists". Far before alt-right was a thing, old leftist hippies that played Mage used to talk about "The Man" and about "Globalization". Remember?. I do remember. I remember that many splats were depicted as underdogs fighting the system with a very hippie vive about them - and, people, the system it's global.

                                So this whole anti-global attitude it's very old. It's very much leftist. I don't think it comes from nazi ninjas but rather as a consequence of One World of Darkness.

                                A shadowy globalist conspiracy hunting mosnters?

                                C'mon people. You know WoD.

                                You know that Mage it's to blame

                                Though using “triggered” the way disgusting trolls do instead of to refer to PTSD flashbacks has been pretty eyebrow raising since the release of the preview in question.
                                Trolls and edgelords are like bread and butter: You can't be a good edgelord if you don't know how to troll.

                                Then again, I wouldn't demand the use of *triggered* in it's correct medical aception: The idea that *triggered* jokes on the internet are somehow becoming rare it's trully new to me. Last time I checked You-Tube was full of them.

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