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  • PMárk
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    I didnt,what did they say?
    It's worth it.

    There's a whole section on it, but the condensed version of it is this: because they are (almost) perfectly contended in it. It gives them a framework to work with (and to some extent: against) and most of them wants the Camarilla's way on dealing with humans (but with a more even power-distribution), instead of the local serfs of Anarch Barons, or the madness of the Sabbat. Also, Brujah generally don't like to be leaders, that's why they lave it to the ventrue. They like to be the loyal opposition, working from the system, exacting changes and also, it gives them much-much more room to move than they'd have in an authoritarial position.

    In short: they like to rebel, yes, but those who are the real "tear down the system" types are the neonates, who are joining the Anarchs for their first few years, or maybe decades, but 99% of them will grow out of it and change into "yes, the system is imperfect and we have to work on it, but it's still much better than the alternatives". They won't bow and became cogs, not really, but they'll grow up.

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  • Legendre
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    I didnt,what did they say?
    I assume he is talking about this:

    This is another reason why the Brujah have joined the Camarilla — it gives them purpose. Without an authority against which to scheme, the Brujah are just agitated, meaningless vampires. We need the Camarilla, if only to use it and say we don’t. Thus, the Jyhad becomes a central facet of Brujah unlife. Even those who do not actively take part often wind up dragged into the schemes of another, often unwittingly. The rogue cell of anarchs that wants nothing to do with elder games becomes a weapon one Kindred uses against another. The neonate Brujah detective who distances himself from Kindred society arrests an individual who happens to be the prince’s favored ghoul. Even the reluctant Kindred firebrand who surrounds himself with activism in mortal concerns colors the political climate of his city — he certainly doesn’t escape the eyes of the Kindred. From the treacherous, backstabbing primogen to the most seemingly oblivious fledgling, the Brujah cannot help but play their part in the Camarilla’s destiny.

    I don’t mean to imply that every Brujah exists at the sole discretion of the Camarilla, or that we run about on myriad petty errands for our elders. In fact, the elders themselves often have nothing to do with the nightly affairs undertaken by other Kindred. Quite the contrary! Because the Camarilla has made it possible for the race of Cainites to flourish, it makes the Kindred a part of it unless they consciously distance themselves from it by actively becoming Autarkis or joining the ranks of the infernal Sabbat. Even if she avoids Elysium and interacts with other Kindred only once a year, every Brujah exists in a world that would destroy her if it knew about her, but doesn’t because of the Camarilla’s efforts.

    Don’t misinterpret me — the Camarilla is plagued with problems. But by and large, it fulfills its purpose, and that is precisely what keeps the Brujah involved with it. It may not work perfectly, but it works.

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  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Originally posted by PMárk View Post

    Did you read the clanbook where they explained, lenghtily, why they won't leave the Cam, likely ever?
    I didnt,what did they say?
    Last edited by Nicolas Milioni; 06-28-2018, 09:58 PM.

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  • PMárk
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Wilson View Post
    I loooove that the Brujah have defected to the Anarchs. I always thought Brujah as part of the tower were an odd fit considering their history and concept.
    Did you read the clanbook where they explained, lenghtily, why they won't leave the Cam, likely ever?

    Leave a comment:


  • PMárk
    replied
    I finished the preview just now and, well...

    It looks decent, visually. I still disagree with the cover choice, though.

    As the actual gaming content:

    1. The snippet from the 2nd Inq was fun.

    1.1 I enjoyed the fashion part too.

    1.2 The overall tone/mood/themes part was... Okay, not bad, per se, the style and writing was good but in my eyes, the similar passages from the old books, with the Gothic-Punk descriptives were a lot more evocative.

    2. I didn't like the Brujah write-up, at all, which is a shame, is was my all-time favorite clan through all the earlier editions. I could bet a rasonable ammount of money they'd came out like this in the new eiditon. Sometimes I hate when I'm right (and I fear it'll be the same with the Anarchs).

    3. The Toreador was okay, overall, but I have a moment of disbelief about having dice penalties if you aren't among pretty things. At one hand, it's somewhat thematical, on the other, it's either too restrictive and penalizing, or too lax.*

    4. Celerity, well, it's a mixed bag. It's great that the levels have multiple powers and most of them are fun. However, I dislike how it became, from the most offensively strong discipline into one that has almost zero offensive capabilities until level 5 (and even that is questionable, for instance, against other supnats). I don't think adding the cel levels to dex for attack rolls for a turn too would be that overkill. In this form I just can't like the feeling of not representing super-speed (which would be indeed one of the strongest things in a combat) more effectively.

    5. Humanity: I like convictions, still totally don't like touchstones, hate that they have to be humans (all the worst fears of being too restrictive coming true) and I find no sense of tying them into convictions. It takes away the later's flexiblity, the exact thing that would make it a great change from the earlier system. For some convictions and character concepts, it's totally nonsensical.

    5.1 Long- and short-term goals, I'm okay with, but I still miss nature and demeanor in some form.

    5.2 Tenets, good, much needed addition in a game like this. Most sensible groups did it in some form, IMO, but it's nice to have it in a codified way in the corebook. But what the hell is "Nordic Gothic"????

    6. Plot stuff: okay. Theo finally have blown up the circus, good.


    * It came up in the celerity section too, but I'm really not happy about how much they went to the narrative game direction. Just too much "the ST will decide" and the usual indie yadda-yadda-we-just-don't-really-want-to-fiddle-with-numbers-and-consistency vibe. Especially in the writeups of powers. I just prefer more exact rules, where you know where you stand, what are your options, what you can do and what you can't. I just prefer more simulational consistency instead of "what the narrative demands". The old system more-or-less had my preferred level of this, neither too number-crunchy, nor too lax. What I've seen in this preview is definitely under my preferred level of exactness.


    Ultimately, I'm happy I didn't preorder the books. The whole preview is a totally mixed bag. I'm sure a lot of people will like it, but I'm totally not sure about myself. I'll read all three books, to see the whole picture and give time for things to settle, around the game and in me too, but eh.

    Maybe I'm just getting old (at the ripe age of nearly-30...) and my (and my generation's) Vampire was the revised edition and that's all, both in themes, aesthetics and approach to rules. It's funny, that I bet all the people who participated in the writing of this edition are older than me, though... Maybe they are just people with different tastes than me and that's all.

    Regardless, I'm feeling more than not that this edition won't be for me. It's not a bad product, based on this preview, it looks good and I'm sure a lot of people will like this more narrative approach to rules and even this take on the Brujah and the other clans. I won't throw around platitudes like "it doesn't feel like VtM" and such, but it sure changed a lot and I just don't like a considerable part of it, which is especially straining, because I really like the other parts. I really wanted to be hyped about this and love it, but utlimately, tight now, I'm having the same feeling I did while I was reading the 1e and 2e Requiem books: "okay, they have a lot of good ideas, but it's not the game I love".


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  • elmerg
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Wilson View Post
    I loooove that the Brujah have defected to the Anarchs. I always thought Brujah as part of the tower were an odd fit considering their history and concept.

    It's not all of them. An 'army of Brujah led by Theo Bell' is not the entire clan.

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  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Wilson View Post
    I loooove that the Brujah have defected to the Anarchs. I always thought Brujah as part of the tower were an odd fit considering their history and concept.
    Back in Lore of the Clan,they described themselves as the "Loyal Opposition". But yeah,Brujah as Anarchs makes more sense

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  • Chris Wilson
    replied
    I loooove that the Brujah have defected to the Anarchs. I always thought Brujah as part of the tower were an odd fit considering their history and concept.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Don't forget Millenial Hardestadt,the only Camarilla Elder who gets Iphones

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  • jamiemalk
    replied
    Originally posted by Blitzburger View Post

    So, Hardestadt the Even Younger Younger?
    Hardestadt the Glint in the Milkman's Eye?

    Leave a comment:


  • Growls
    replied
    Originally posted by Blitzburger View Post

    So, Hardestadt the Even Younger Younger?
    Aka Jan Pieterzoon?
    He was trying to get a proper anti-Antedeluvian thing going on in the Camarilla camp.
    I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up when the Sabbat returns.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blitzburger
    replied
    Originally posted by JezMiller View Post

    That was what Tyler thought, and we all know how that went...
    So, Hardestadt the Even Younger Younger?

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  • JezMiller
    replied
    Originally posted by Blitzburger View Post
    Hardestadt and Pieterzoon are dead.
    That was what Tyler thought, and we all know how that went...

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  • Leandro16
    replied
    Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
    One entry that I reeeally didn't quite like was the one about it allowing you to literally run across water and up walls (Celerity 3).

    Thanks, Hollywood.
    Idem that should be an elder level , normal celerity levels should only allow great parkour feats (Even greater with potence)

    My point was that even when there are things that are fine and I even used in some games like for example the dodging bullets and ignoring defense in close combat there are some levels that i feel could have been more powerful or interesting without getting in the Uber-Celerity rules from the previous games.

    Thanks for your answer.

    PD:Something worth of mention is the fact that each level of celerity has 2 entries and I wonder if that would be extrapolable to other disciplines becuase it has to much potential.


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  • Ambrosia
    replied
    Originally posted by Leandro16 View Post
    Now about celerity I like the fact that they made It have different levels and nerfed it becuase celerity was to much powerful but they have gone to far with the nerf and I don´t like that.The diferent levels should have been something more impresive. I would like to read the others thoughts about this change.
    I personally like mooooost entries in that Celerity lineup, really. Passive-automatic perfect balance on even the smallest of ledges and edges. You can still add it to non-combat Dex rolls, you can use it once in a combat turn to add to a defense/dodge roll, you can use it to instantly attack somebody *50 yards away* and there are options to do attacks with it that *can't be dodged*. Among things.

    Sorry, but some of those things are damn powerful. I really suggest re-reading it
    Is it always-add-it-to-every-combat-dex-roll or do-celerity-amounts-of-actions powerful? No, but that's what was so broken about it before.

    However:
    One entry that I reeeally didn't quite like was the one about it allowing you to literally run across water and up walls (Celerity 3). Dozens of yards and floors worth of it.
    That entry just feels waaaaaaaay too much like how every modern schlocky action vampire series or movie shows vamps off because it's a cheap-to-do special effect. I cringed when I read that. For some reason, in my mind, it collides with the 'You are the tragic monster' atmosphere they are going for so HARD. I know, it seems weird in view of all the other stuff that disciplines allow you to do, but...I can't help it.

    Thanks, Hollywood.
    Last edited by Ambrosia; 06-28-2018, 05:53 PM.

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