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  • Tenebrous Form and clothes

    In Tenebrous Form only vampire himself became a shadow-thing and not clothes that were on him, right?

  • #2
    Could go either way as nothing explicitly excludes clothing (nor explicitly includes it) from the equation. So whether "[...] that she (the vampire) may physically become it (Darkness/Shadow)." includes clothing or not would be up to the ST decision.
    Last edited by Boneguard; 07-01-2018, 05:12 PM.


    Project consolidation:
    Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
    In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

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    • #3
      Some of the novels describe a character that was a taylor/designer in life who created clothing specifically designed to fall in a neat pile when the wearer used Tenebrous Form. But to me that sounds rather silly, I usually go with clothing and small items (jewelry for example) turning into shadow/mist/blood/whatever when you turn.





      English is not my native language, so i apologize for errors in grammar or spelling.

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      • #4
        That would seem more in line with vampire lore, which wasn't exactly full of vampires reappearing naked after turning into wolves or leaving their clothes behind while slipping between a closed door and its frame.

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        • #5
          Though to be fair i don't think Sabbat vampires or elder Gangrel would worry much about appearing naked after transforming back from Shadow/Animal/Mist/Blood as they are beyond such human emotions as shame of their body.





          English is not my native language, so i apologize for errors in grammar or spelling.

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          • #6
            Protean specifically does call out that cloths and items transform with you. I also vaguely remember Lucita needing to redress in Gehenna, but could be wrong.
            Last edited by Beckett; 07-02-2018, 08:17 AM.


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            • #7
              In revised lasombra clanbook and in trilogy obtenebration clearly was changing only flesh.
              Last edited by trueann; 07-02-2018, 11:19 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by trueann View Post
                In revised lasombra clanbook and in trilogy obtenebration clearly was changing only flesh.

                There's the problem.

                1) Not everyone has the Revised Clanbook (nor the original), so not everyone has acces to this information.
                2) Novels. Not everyone read them and RPG novels tend to be "flawed" (for lack of better word) but the authors interpretation of the rules, lack of knowledge of the rules or simply the Rule of Cool. and we've all seen cases were a author either contradicted another or contradicted the Corebook/sourcebook.

                So the only concensus we can have would be to go by the Corebook and, based on V20 Corebook, it is not explicitely stated one way or the other.


                Project consolidation:
                Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
                In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

                Comment


                • #9
                  But, like I pointed out above, since other abilities DO specify, we can reasonably deduce that it's lack of similar exceptions for either Obtenebration or Viccisitude mean they do not affect clothing the same way.


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                  • #10
                    I agree with Beckett's reasoning, and several sources in canon concur, though it seems counter-thematic. Lasombra are vampires of dignity and poise, not free spirits who wander about sky-clad. If anything, it would seem more appropriate for Gangrel to shed their jeans and flannel shirts, while Lasombra keep their suits and ties unflappably in place.

                    It creates the odd side-effect of Lasombra using the ability in a fight losing all the items they were carrying when they transformed. So, they could use the power to flee, but leave behind wallet, cell phone, car keys, weapons, personal memorabilia, and so forth. This could be quite useful to their enemies, as even fake IDs have paper trails after a time, and Auspex 2 could reveal much about the Lasombra who fled.

                    I wonder how many packs have been destroyed because an elder Lasombra left too many clues for their pursuers to follow.

                    As much as some Sabbat vampires may claim they have left their human selves behind, a naked man walking down the middle of the street is going to create complications and distractions, which is likely not going to be helpful to the Lasombra using the power to escape combat.

                    Upside for Lasombra, a player could argue that transforming removes embedded bullets, sheds chemicals (and simple dirt) which have been splashed upon them, and obviously makes putting a Lasombra in handcuffs a fool's errand.

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                    • #11
                      Now that I think of it, that Leif Jones illustration of the paraplegic Lasombra from the Revised Clanbook did appear to be nude but for the shadows carrying him. I suppose leaving carried objects behind doesn't become a problem until someone has Obtenebration 5, which implies at least ancilla status (and consequently enough common sense to not carry anything incriminating for just such an eventuality) to me.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with Nosimplehiway – Lasombra just don't seem the type for going naked. With Tzimisce, it seems far more appropriate (though probably even more disturbing) due to their disdain for mortal considerations of propriety.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cifer View Post
                          I agree with Nosimplehiway – Lasombra just don't seem the type for going naked. With Tzimisce, it seems far more appropriate (though probably even more disturbing) due to their disdain for mortal considerations of propriety.

                          But they have cardinal, who literally walks around naked http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Greyhound
                          Last edited by trueann; 07-02-2018, 06:38 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by trueann View Post
                            But they have cardinal, who literally goes around naked http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Greyhound
                            He, and his flock, would be more the "Exception that confirms the Rule" rather than your average member of the clan.

                            On top of them, the linked description indicates he has no aptitude in Shadow Manipulation, so far from your regular Lasombra.


                            Project consolidation:
                            Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
                            In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

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