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  • #16
    Originally posted by Vendrin View Post
    Just have multiple vamps latch on and drain. Fortitude and armor dont protect against blood being drained.
    No, but they protect against the fangs actually even making it through the skin. Especially with the Serpentis 3 also adding Stamina to protection against fangs.


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    • #17
      Don't believe it says that in the rules. It protects against damage. The fangs in themselves aren't being used to damage just tiny little puncture holes to drain. At least that's how I and my previous sts always ran it. It's why elders were so afraid of packs of neonates

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      • #18
        Really, unless the OP really wants us to list all the mechanical things that could get past a Soak-Tank, it's really not that useful. They exist.

        "Just mob them with numbers" runs into the same issues as any others: what happens to the rest of the PCs.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Cifer View Post
          I take it you're using Vampire's rules for werewolves? Because in the actual Werewolf, werewolves do have abilities that boost their soak further and work against silver too.

          I assume you know Potence has been downgraded to usually only provide dice and hand out auto-successes only when you spend a blood point?
          Of course we use werewolfs rules for Vampire. We play Vampire, not Apocalypse, which in our opinion makes werewolfs stupidly OP so we treat it like seperate system. We play Vampire, we use Vampire rules. Crossovers ends up very bad as they were clearly never designed to work together in any semi-balance sense.

          I know Potence has been nerfed (thank god), but still 5 Potence adds 5 more dices. So if you have Strength 6 (blood buff +1), Potence 5 and Tongue of Asp that is Strength 11 agg damage or in case of using Sword 13 Strength damage, Axe 14 and Two-handed sword (yes, he has it for special occasion ) 16 Strength Damage. So while Potence nerf made it less broken it still allows for average of 5 to even 8 successes of agg or lethal damage with one hit.

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          • #20
            Yes, the problem is 2 of other party "warriors" feel overshadowed and I can't balance fights well. I throw something to be threat to that Settite and I risk rest of the party die. I try to throw more balanced encounter- settite guy just walks through it.

            But I got some suggestion here so thanks for that

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            • #21
              You know, this being Vampire and all, if I was either of the other combat guys, I'd be considering diablerie. I wouldn't necessarily pull the trigger on that option, but it'd definitely on my mind.


              "At the risk of sounding like a murder hobo"

              Attributed to Nyrufa.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Vendrin View Post
                Don't believe it says that in the rules. It protects against damage. The fangs in themselves aren't being used to damage just tiny little puncture holes to drain. At least that's how I and my previous sts always ran it. It's why elders were so afraid of packs of neonates
                If your fangs can't break the skin you can't drain any blood. What do you think happens when a bite is completely soaked, it breaks through anyway?

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                • #23
                  CajunKhan

                  I agree with all you've posted.

                  Inertial Frame

                  If my vampire buddy was a brick wall for me in times of danger, why would I want to kill him?

                  My games are never heavy combat focus. I don't think the game is all that great for dungeon crawl style adventures. Constantly doing battle in vampire will get you killed pretty quick with all the weird mechanics, not to mention if you went around killing your fellow vampires your havens probably going to burn down around noon time.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Vamps Like Us View Post

                    If your fangs can't break the skin you can't drain any blood. What do you think happens when a bite is completely soaked, it breaks through anyway?
                    Delivering the Kiss doesn't actually do any damage, and doesn't require anything except a successful Dexterity + Brawl roll.

                    "Alternatively, a player can declare her vampire’s bite to be a “Kiss” attack. A Kiss is resolved in the same way as a normal bite, but inflicts no health levels of damage. Upon connecting with a Kiss, the vampire may begin to drain the victim’s blood at the normal rate, and the victim is typically helpless to resist (see p. 269 for specifics). Following the Kiss, a vampire may, if she chooses, lick the puncture wound of the Kiss closed, thereby removing any evidence that she has fed."

                    A high soak pool doesn't help against this tactic at all.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Vamps Like Us View Post
                      If my vampire buddy was a brick wall for me in times of danger, why would I want to kill him?

                      My games are never heavy combat focus. I don't think the game is all that great for dungeon crawl style adventures. Constantly doing battle in vampire will get you killed pretty quick with all the weird mechanics, not to mention if you went around killing your fellow vampires your havens probably going to burn down around noon time.
                      Well, first, I'd consider why we're in all these dangerous situations. If this guy is to blame, I both get a power up AND reduce my overall danger levels. Double plus, "Oh, I heard something that sounded out of the ordinary, turned a corner, and he was in serious trouble! He went down before I could help him, I frenzied, and killed the guy who must have jumped him. I must have diablerized that guy in the heat of the moment, not knowing I couldn't save my friend, since he was ash by the time I regained control from my Beast."

                      Also, Vampire, the game where plotting against the other PC's isn't always frowned upon.


                      "At the risk of sounding like a murder hobo"

                      Attributed to Nyrufa.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by PazuzuAxelf View Post

                        Delivering the Kiss doesn't actually do any damage, and doesn't require anything except a successful Dexterity + Brawl roll.

                        "Alternatively, a player can declare her vampire’s bite to be a “Kiss” attack. A Kiss is resolved in the same way as a normal bite, but inflicts no health levels of damage. Upon connecting with a Kiss, the vampire may begin to drain the victim’s blood at the normal rate, and the victim is typically helpless to resist (see p. 269 for specifics). Following the Kiss, a vampire may, if she chooses, lick the puncture wound of the Kiss closed, thereby removing any evidence that she has fed."

                        A high soak pool doesn't help against this tactic at all.
                        Read more carefull, V20 corebook page 269:

                        "Most vampires drink their victim’s blood slowly, so as
                        to savor the luscious fluid and draw as much pleasure as
                        possible out of the experience.
                        Once the Kindred breaks her vessel’s skin with her
                        fangs, that vessel no longer resists the vampire
                        (if he
                        did in the first place). Indeed, the ecstasy caused by
                        the vampire’s bite is called the Kiss, and it engenders
                        as much exquisite, subtly painful pleasure in vampires
                        as it does in mortals. Exceptionally strong-willed mortals
                        (9+ Willpower) may continue to resist, but even
                        these vessels eventually succumb to the pleasure. Some
                        Kindred and kine even develop lusts for the Kiss and
                        actively seek out those who will drink their blood."


                        ONCE FANGS BREAKS SKIN.

                        So good luck breaking this guys skin in full tank mode. Not to mention sneak on him (auspex + accute sense: smell and hear, Perception 4, Alertness 4 (spec Ambushes) or trying to brawl him with Potence 5 and Tongue of Asp. Actually one of his favourite things is to grab YOU instead and hold you and let Tongue of Asp rip you a holes in your face/head while drinking your blood with it
                        Last edited by Viben; 07-05-2018, 06:35 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Well, you've pretty much nailed the coffin. Your only real way to combat this character is with social situations, unless somehow he has impressive social stats, too, in which case, why does he even need a coterie?


                          "At the risk of sounding like a murder hobo"

                          Attributed to Nyrufa.

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                          • #28
                            By a strict interpretation of the rules you don't need to do damage to pierce the skin. Is it the most logically consistent rule, no, but this vampire and their aren't many of those. You can always rule that it is inherent in the curse of Caine or something that biting to drain is more effective.

                            You wanted a way to break the tank, this is one way that has been used in many people's games especially pre v20 when revised didn't mention anything about breaking the skin.

                            Your game, your rules, but you wanted a way to challenge him without axing your other players or bringing in blood sorcery, here you go.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Vendrin View Post
                              By a strict interpretation of the rules you don't need to do damage to pierce the skin. Is it the most logically consistent rule, no, but this vampire and their aren't many of those. You can always rule that it is inherent in the curse of Caine or something that biting to drain is more effective.

                              You wanted a way to break the tank, this is one way that has been used in many people's games especially pre v20 when revised didn't mention anything about breaking the skin.

                              Your game, your rules, but you wanted a way to challenge him without axing your other players or bringing in blood sorcery, here you go.
                              Indeed, it may not be what was intended, but no health level inflicted means no Soak...which means that high Stamina, Fortitude and Serpentis 3 at all moot...This Character is as vulnerable to The Kiss as anyone else.


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                              • #30
                                Edit: never mind, read the rules as you like...
                                Last edited by Vamps Like Us; 07-05-2018, 07:03 PM.

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