Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chicago Sourcebook coming to V5 by Onyx Path

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Yaoi Huntress Earth View Post
    Out of curiosity, I asked who was going to do the art and sadly, I found out that Josh Timbrook (who did the original character portraits) no longer does freelance work. Too bad, it would've been nice to see him do an updated version of them.
    Aw that sucks.

    Didn't know the artists name off the top of my head but it would have been pretty great to pull him back in. I'm hoping Mark Rein Hagen is on the team as well since he was there when it all started.

    I wonder if/how they plan on addressing the murder rate. Vampire involvement like they did the middle east elder war, or just the catastrophic fail on the part of Emmanuelle. Even having moved from Chicago it's still sad to see it go on for so long.

    Comment


    • #32
      I loved the original Chicago By Night, and normally I'd be excited for something like this but after seeing how V5 has turned out so far, I'm not so sure.

      Comment


      • #33
        Are the extra clans going to be published among the "By Nights" books?
        Because I thought Lasombra and Tzimisce were going to be together in a future Sabbat book.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by PMárk View Post

          Ah, and they took them in, just like that?

          I hope they're elaborating it a LOT in the book, because otherwise, it's exemplary to my problem with the new setting. A tad too much weird, out-of-character stuff and handwaving, to achieve the desired results and explain drastic changes.
          It's by no means as simple as that. See the flavor text with the Dominate discipline in the core. Also, it's not easy to find people who know the setting better than the guy who is developing the book, so I have faith that it'll be presented in a way that makes sense. Hell, it already makes a fair amount of sense, given what we know, and I'm sure there's more to come.

          Comment


          • #35
            This book will indeed include Lasombra and reasons for their presence in a major Camarilla city. And yes, it's more elaborate than the teasers I've spoken about at Gen Con. We're not just going to throw them into another sect without good reason.


            Matthew Dawkins
            In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

            ~Hapax Legomenon~

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by PMárk View Post
              On the contrary, that's HUGE indeed. Half of all Lasombra of the Sabbat is a... lot of Lasombra (what is a group of Lasombra? A gloom of Lasombra?).
              May I suggest the following addendum to VtM style-sheets?

              I would argue there is no plural for Lasombra in English. "Lasombra" is an uncountable/mass noun, like "aggression", "darkness", or "rulership".

              "Uncountable nouns are for the things that we cannot count with numbers. They may be the names for abstract ideas or qualities or for physical objects that are too small or too amorphous to be counted (liquids, powders, gases, etc.). Uncountable nouns are used with a singular verb. They usually do not have a plural form."- source

              For languages which stubbornly demand count-ability for subject-verb agreement purposes, the Lasombra simply refuse. They are not known for valuing agree-ableness.

              If one insists upon creating a term for a group of Lasombra, perhaps a "Conspiracy of Lasombra", a "Connivance of Lasombra", or -for the hardcore Classicist set- an "Adumbration of Lasombra"?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Growls View Post
                So. Eh. Apparently, Matthew said that the reason for the Lasombra being in this book is this:
                Since a lot Lasombra disliked the whole Sabbat moving to the Middle East, they realized that the Camarilla now acknowledged the Antediluvians, and decided to jump ship.
                .... I'm guessing it's shorthand, as Dawkins has not let us down before, but that just seems to be odd. But cool for the Camarilla to finally allow the ritualistic stuff in.

                So Camarilla is letting in a clan that thinks that sanctioned diablierie is a valid instrument to settle disputes? A clan that made the slaughering of their elders a badge of honor? One of the most inhuman clan ever ? The eternal rival of the Ventrue?
                I imagine they will even be on friendly terms with Montano's exiles, just forgetting hundreds of years of hate so deep that entire crusades have been made just to kill a single anti-tribu.

                Interesting. I imagine Nosferatu beauty contests and Tzimisce charity are just around the corner.
                Last edited by Undead rabbit; 08-10-2018, 08:18 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
                  This book will indeed include Lasombra and reasons for their presence in a major Camarilla city. And yes, it's more elaborate than the teasers I've spoken about at Gen Con. We're not just going to throw them into another sect without good reason.
                  I'll wait patiently for those reasons.

                  I loved BJD and generally, I like your writing. I even like your V5 videos, despite having problems with some parts of the new rules and with the new setting itself. To be perfectly honest, I like your presentation of the setting in the new videos more than the presentation in the book. Still think that the setting went in too extreme directions in places, though, as, at this point in time, we can ascertain. Maybe it will feel less alien, after the setting books. I hope so, because even if I'm not using the new rules as is, I want to keep up with the lore and I hope I could enjoy it.


                  If nothing worked, then let's think!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post


                    So Camarilla is letting in a clan that thinks that sanctioned diablierie is a valid instrument to settle disputes? A clan that made the slaughering of their elders a badge of honor? One of the most inhuman clan ever ? The eternal rival of the Ventrue?
                    I imagine they will even be on friendly terms with Montano's exiles, just forgetting hundreds of years of hate so deep that entire crusades have been made just to kill a single anti-tribu.

                    Interesting. I imagine Nosferatu beauty contests and Tzimisce charity are just around the corner.
                    Don't expect every clan to be happy about it.


                    Matthew Dawkins
                    In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

                    ~Hapax Legomenon~

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post


                      So Camarilla is letting in a clan that thinks that sanctioned diablierie is a valid instrument to settle disputes? A clan that made the slaughering of their elders a badge of honor? One of the most inhuman clan ever ? The eternal rival of the Ventrue?
                      I imagine they will even be on friendly terms with Montano's exiles, just forgetting hundreds of years of hate so deep that entire crusades have been made just to kill a single anti-tribu.
                      The Camarilla has always been about mutually antagonistic clans getting along just well enough to protect their own and profit from the arrangement. It's not as if the Brujah and Ventrue haven't always harbored mutual resentment. Or the Nosferatu and the Toreador. Or the Malkavians and pretty much everybody else.

                      The thing about elites is that they have generally learned how to compartmentalize their mutual antagonisms in the name of protecting their collective privilege vs. the underclass, which is a big part of how they got to be in their position. Or to put it another way, the vampires of the Camarilla can hate each other all they want, as long as they hate their mutual enemies more.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

                        May I suggest the following addendum to VtM style-sheets?

                        I would argue there is no plural for Lasombra in English. "Lasombra" is an uncountable/mass noun, like "aggression", "darkness", or "rulership".

                        "Uncountable nouns are for the things that we cannot count with numbers. They may be the names for abstract ideas or qualities or for physical objects that are too small or too amorphous to be counted (liquids, powders, gases, etc.). Uncountable nouns are used with a singular verb. They usually do not have a plural form."- source

                        For languages which stubbornly demand count-ability for subject-verb agreement purposes, the Lasombra simply refuse. They are not known for valuing agree-ableness.

                        If one insists upon creating a term for a group of Lasombra, perhaps a "Conspiracy of Lasombra", a "Connivance of Lasombra", or -for the hardcore Classicist set- an "Adumbration of Lasombra"?

                        As of now, I don't think any of the formal clan names are treated as countable, except Malkavian, but that one is an adjective based on a name, so different rules.

                        But yes, I agree that pluralizing "Lasombras" would be undignified. Good luck being invited to their Elysium parties if they hear that one. Of course, being excluded from that social set might be in your best interest in the long run.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
                          As of now, I don't think any of the formal clan names are treated as countable, except Malkavian, but that one is an adjective based on a name, so different rules.

                          But yes, I agree that pluralizing "Lasombras" would be undignified. Good luck being invited to their Elysium parties if they hear that one. Of course, being excluded from that social set might be in your best interest in the long run.

                          The Single of Tremere is Tremo

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                            So Camarilla is letting in a clan that thinks that sanctioned diablierie is a valid instrument to settle disputes?
                            Well, the Assamite schismatics are making a good go of it. For that matter, the Tremere aren't completely unfamiliar with eating their way to the top.

                            A clan that made the slaughering of their elders a badge of honor?
                            If you mean just generally very old Keepers, the Lasombra antitribu (by definition) weren't whole-heartedly on board with that. If you mean destroying their Antedeluvian? Well, the Founders of the Camarilla tell us the Antedeluvians are either allegorical figures or were destroyed millennia ago, and why would they lie? So, habeas corpus.

                            One of the most inhuman clan ever ?
                            Oh, I don't know about that. Pursuing the perfection of the self so you can acquire rulership over others is a very human urge.

                            Plus, on the inhumanity front, the Ivory Tower is made of glass houses. Malkavian serial killers, Nosferatu leatherfaces, gory Tremere blood rituals, Toreador human trafficking rings, Brujah car-bombs, and Ventrue vintage clubs all exist quite cosily in the Camarilla. What's one more monster in the mix?

                            The eternal rival of the Ventrue?
                            The only way the Ventrue could organize opposition around that argument would be to first admit the Lasombra are their equals, and a threat they must fear. Ice-skates in hell they'll do that!

                            I imagine they will even be on friendly terms with Montano's exiles, just forgetting hundreds of years of hate so deep that entire crusades have been made just to kill a single anti-tribu.

                            Interesting.
                            Who says they forget past... disagreements? The Gangrel and the Nosferatu politely greet Tremere at Elysium, despite the late unpleasantness over the Gargoyles. Funny thing about old wars is that the people who actually got killed in them aren't around to complain when peace is made.

                            History may be written by the winners, but peace treaties are written by the survivors.

                            I imagine Nosferatu beauty contests and Tzimisce charity are just around the corner
                            The Tzimisce can be quite charitable if you arrive on their doorstep, hat in hand, and ask politely. They are one of the few clans to be genuinely concerned about the well-being of their properly welcomed and well-behaved guests. Just mind your manners, don't trespass, and leave before you become a burden. It's actually one of the more humane things about the Tzimisce.

                            How many Tremere would welcome a vampire into their chantry no matter how polite? How many Nosferatu would offer their warren for a few nights Haven to a stranger? How many Toreador would welcome a social outcast to one of their soirees?

                            ...

                            Besides, the general trend in V5 has been the Requiem-ing of VtM. In VtR, every clan is in every Covenant, so I am not surprised they are mixing up the demographics over here. This is one case where that trend increases the storytelling possibilities, so I see it as a good thing.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

                              Well, the Assamite schismatics are making a good go of it. For that matter, the Tremere aren't completely unfamiliar with eating their way to the top.
                              Assamite have not been at war with the Camarilla since the Tyre's Treaty, and have not been diablerist since the Camarilla was born. No Assamite in the last 600 years is a diablerist, even more true fir the Schismatic which come mostly from the Viziers and the Sorcerors. It was the Warrior caste, and the Web of Knives in particular, that was tainted by diablerie. The only Assamite diablerists you could find before Ur-Shulgi return were the warriors who followed Izhim-Ur Bhaal inside Chorazin before joining the Black Hand.
                              Tremeres on the other hands make quite the effort to hide from the Camarilla their origins as diablerist.
                              Lasombras on the other hands have been diablerist since ever ,they have waged war against the Camarilla and western elders since 1407.
                              Most lasombra will have black veins in their aura, an not just for a clan curse. If you are a Lasombra and have at least 100 years you have been invited in the Amici Noctis, with all the consequences of it.



                              If you mean just generally very old Keepers, the Lasombra antitribu (by definition) weren't whole-heartedly on board with that. If you mean destroying their Antedeluvian? Well, the Founders of the Camarilla tell us the Antedeluvians are either allegorical figures or were destroyed millennia ago, and why would they lie? So, habeas corpus.

                              For Lasombras the Antedeluvians are not an allegorical figures, the Founder was the most active Antedeluvian ever, along with Cappadocius, and a lot of Lasombras still active today met him, you don't need to be a Methuselah to have known the Founder. Most ancillas are infants of people who know for sure that the things that lived in the crypt of Castel d'Ombro was not really allegorical.
                              Even more the Lasombra Antediluvian,like Cappadocia, was very present in the life of the clan, and its presence shaped the very essence of the Shadow clan

                              So Camarilla is accepting in its ranks a clan that KNOWS that Antes are a thing.



                              Oh, I don't know about that. Pursuing the perfection of the self so you can acquire rulership over others is a very human urge.

                              Plus, on the inhumanity front, the Ivory Tower is made of glass houses. Malkavian serial killers, Nosferatu leatherfaces, gory Tremere blood rituals, Toreador human trafficking rings, Brujah car-bombs, and Ventrue vintage clubs all exist quite cosily in the Camarilla. What's one more monster in the mix?

                              It really does not compare.


                              THE BLACK ANGELS
                              Taint of sin in my soul! Fuck, yes! My every act makes
                              it manifest. It is my glory. Let me share it with you.
                              — Madd Killah, ductus-in-training
                              Since the first Christian centuries, some
                              Lasombra have interpreted their role as being literal
                              devils on earth, serving Satan's will by feeding moral
                              as well as physical darkness. Even before Christian
                              teaching spread, similar movements existed on the
                              fringes of Zoroastrian and other dualist beliefs. In the
                              Middle Ages, the Angellis Ater or Black Angels constantly
                              provoked the Friends of Night with their
                              reckless and relentless assaults on mortal society.
                              The Black Angels' depredations fueled popular support
                              for the Inquisition's monster hunting. The clever
                              survivors among the Black Angels played a crucial
                              role in bringing the Sabbat together with a doctrine
                              of supremacy in evil.
                              In the last thirty years or so, the Black Angels
                              have re-emerged from the margins of Lasombra culture.
                              Explicit dedication to evil appeals to surprising
                              numbers of neonates who've grown up in societies
                              they find bland and unprincipled — any code of
                              conduct will do, it seems, as long as it provides a firm
                              justification for their depredations.

                              THE ABYSS'S CHILDREN
                              I find no truths except in darkness. The world will not
                              interest me until all traces of light have been expunged from
                              it forever. I act only to hasten the end of the last day.
                              —FilipeToreaso Maguno, packmember, Cali, Colombia
                              The Children are the dedicated practitioners of
                              Abyss mysticism (see page 63). They tend to care
                              about the Sabbat only insofar as it affords them a safe
                              space in which to pursue their studies. Occasionally
                              they venture forth to battle, demonstrating exotic
                              Obtenebration arts and often calling on unfamiliar
                              occult forces. Then they return to their labs and
                              libraries. Lasombra bishops love to have a few of the
                              Abyss's Children around in moments of crisis, and
                              are then glad to see them go away. The dedicated
                              scholars of the Abyss are strange even by Sabbat
                              standards.
                              No city has more than a few of the Abyss's
                              Children, but secret enclaves of Abyss mystics supposedly
                              locate themselves far from known Sabbat
                              strongholds. Their inhabitants either don't mingle
                              with the rest of the clan or do so under disguises no
                              one has pierced. Skeptics figure that this is one more
                              rumor used to keep vampires looking away from real
                              targets in search of fake ones


                              THF TRANSHUMANISTS
                              "Every day in every way we're getting better and
                              better." This is a great time to be undead. Never mind all the
                              talk of Gehenna: Look at developments in cybernetics,
                              materials technology, communications and all the rest. We
                              have the best tools ever to build a world empire of blood that
                              will never, ever fall. And I aim to be there for the rest of
                              eternity, breaking new ground all the time.
                              — Malcolm Federsen, pack member, Denver
                              Many modern people (living or undead) don't
                              realize that theories of evolution run back to antiquity.
                              Darwin didn't invent the notion, he just
                              identified natural selection as its mechanism. Since
                              before recorded history, some Lasombra have taken
                              as their primary goal the mastery of all their implicit
                              abilities, evolving into beings who show the full
                              potential of unlife.
                              The spread of Darwin's idea made the notion
                              more acceptable to modern vampires who didn't buy
                              into Pythagorean mysticism and the other ancient
                              philosophies surrounding evolution. While they grant
                              the intrinsically supernatural state they're in,
                              transhumanists point out how many natural laws still
                              apply to their condition and see their ongoing devel-
                              opment in essentially scientific terms. The modern
                              transhumanists aim to systematically create the perfect
                              vampire.
                              Transhumanism confuses both elders and neonates
                              who think of vampirism in mystical terms.
                              Transhumanists quantify their various powers, work
                              out taxonomies and otherwise seek to reduce vampirism
                              to data. Some end up retaining their humanitas
                              simply because debauchery and villainy seem boring.
                              Others excel at wildly inhuman Paths because they
                              regard human morality as a dam in the flow of ideas,
                              forcing innovation into narrow channels.
                              Many transhumanists retain an interest in advanced
                              technology: computing, biology, medicine,
                              aerospace engineering and the like. Others seek a
                              perfection that relies on no tools, though they also
                              appreciate logic and method. They're not Spock
                              with fangs, however — they recognize that passion
                              and destruction are parts of vampirism as much as
                              logic and insight are, and when they take part in the
                              rites, they're often the most driven participants.
                              They do everything that seems worth doing at all as
                              wholeheartedly as they can. It's just that they explain
                              their fervor in terms that most vampires find
                              incomprehensible.
                              Some transhumanist Lasombra pursue matters of
                              common interest with Tzimisce Metamorphosists
                              and antitribu who share similar inclinations. Others
                              prefer to associate only with their own clan.









                              Who says they forget past... disagreements? The Gangrel and the Nosferatu politely greet Tremere at Elysium, despite the late unpleasantness over the Gargoyles. Funny thing about old wars is that the people who actually got killed in them aren't around to complain when peace is made.

                              History may be written by the winners, but peace treaties are written by the survivors.

                              It's different. The only thing that compare is the hate the Lazarenes hold against the Giovanni.



                              "Lasombra antritribu are the first target of any Sabbat packs in a given city. The mere runor of an antitribu's presence is enough to whip the local Sabbat into a homicidal frenzy"

                              THEIR ANTITRIBU
                              The Lasombra hold a loathing for their antitribu that
                              borders on obsession. For a start, it is a betrayal of the
                              highest order. We killed our own Antediluvian; we earned
                              a place free of the Camarilla. To side with the pawns of
                              the ancients is pure treachery. It is also a sign of weakness
                              to cast aside the freedom of the Sabbat to take on the
                              chains of the Camarilla. If there is one thing the Lasombra
                              cannot abide it is weakness, especially among our own.
                              Finally, it diminishes the Lasombra as a whole. We like
                              to show ourselves as the united paragons of the Sabbat:
                              individual, but all dedicated to the cause. The antitribu
                              spoil that useful and potent reputation.
                              The Lasombra use our considerable resources and those
                              of the Sabbat to hunt down and slaughter any antitribu
                              they hear about. Every night such a creature lives in a
                              slap in the face. However, there is sometimes a grudging
                              respect for some cases, although we would never admit
                              it. Giangaleazzo, the Prince of Milan, is a prime example.
                              He changed sides and took his city with him, making
                              him the Lasombra’s primary target. While our failure to
                              destroy him sticks in their craw, we deeply respect this
                              vampire who basically announced to all of the Lasombra
                              that he would take us all on, and did. Nevertheless, when
                              we finally do take him down, we will spare no quarter.

                              Last edited by Undead rabbit; 08-11-2018, 05:35 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

                                Don't expect every clan to be happy about it.
                                Please describe "not happy"!

                                Because there is "loud arguments on Elysium-flying porcelain-slamming doors-general drama" not happy and there is "literal bloodbath and multiple coups and assasinations galore" not happy. And this thing is not on the magnitude of the first group.


                                If nothing worked, then let's think!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X